To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

Yabu

No childcare options open to me locally and one child with sn so I can’t just get a random in

OP yanbu and I say this as a lone parent with no childcare bubble, but lucky enough to have a young teen. I am a keyworker who has had to be home based since April 2020 whilst still undertaking statuatory visits and child protection referrals.
Two colleagues have returned from mat leave in that time who have managed to negotiate just being available to do visits/duty/be available outside their home for 1 or 2 days a week. We are a team of 6 so this has a massive impact on the rest of us. Both admit this is because they do not want to pay for childcare. I get that, it costs a bloody fortune- been there.
However the resentment is building, when they need a second person it has to fit around their limited availability. Busy duty days are the ones they will not cover. Also annual leave days have to take into account their home based days. They say it does not impact on the team but I am frequently asked to drop things off, or because I am nearer the office, be in for someone to drop something off. At times this has been arranged before asking my availability and I have been in the middle of a very important mèeting.

YABVU to expect them to have childcare when holiday providers (summer camps, Easter workshops etc) are all closed. Maybe ask them about their difficulties before making demands of them?

Your updates show that you are trying to be reasonable and accommodating, OP. That's ace - it's easy to get into rigid policy making, and much harder to be adaptive and inventive.

A blanket childcare requirement is unreasonable as many have outlined but finding solutions like core hours with other hours done as early morning/later evening are great.

Luckily I'm a teacher son off for the Easter holidays but in my previous job I worked all year round. I'd have had to take unpaid leave. Single parent, absolutely no childcare and no support around me

Op has it cross your mind that the more circulating unvaccinated kids do the more likely their parents are to end up going off work sick?

womanity
I find it incredible how many people (women!!) are ready to throw everyone else (other women!!) under the bus.

This. it is really sad.

Contracted to work 8 hours with 45 mins for lunch - so 7 hours 15 mins. I get up and start work at 6:30am, I work until 8am (DH gets the kids up and dressed and fed) and then I take them to school - on foot and I’m back at 9:15. I work until 3pm, then walk to pick them up - back at 3:45pm, and I get the kids set up with a snack and a TV show whilst I do another hour and a half or so - then stop and feed them, homework, bath, bed, playing etc - and finish off emails from 8:30pm to 9:30pm ish - so every day I do more than my contracted hours, I get to walk to do the school run, I get quality time with my kids and I offer greater flexibility to my work and my clients - it’s win win - and the kids are knackered after school and will happily watch TV (or use iPad, or read, or play with playmobil or Lego or whatever) as their free time.

It really works well, and no one is loosing out here. Flexibility works for everyone, if you have performance concerns , manage performance, not working hours

@SpareBib

womanity I find it incredible how many people (women!!) are ready to throw everyone else (other women!!) under the bus.

This. it is really sad.

🙄

What’s your solution?

@willstarttomorrow it's a totally different kettle of fish looking after (neglecting) babies and preschoolers while you work and looking after a fairly self sufficient school child.

It is a very tricky one I think - I have a certain amount of childcare from my parents (which is far trickier even with a childcare bubble I dont think we follow the rules strictly as that would be impossible) abd only work 3 days and flexible hours so I can fit it in.

But an issue is SPACE and rooms as well. Have you given your workers a budget for the office. In the holidays previously I used the same approach but DH hadnt taken up the front room.

The front room with the playstation - which they are both allowed a certain amount of time in the holidays on as a reward. It is really difficult to do timings to fit in with the rooms and moving around. None of us are used to him being there ALL the time - so in effect we are losing space and something they want to do

Term time isnt a problem with that - homeschool wasnt either. But holidays it is difficult to lose a room

I’d establish what I’d try to keep and work from there

• full phone call
• not use staff to cover for others

If this means shorter shifts or core hours for everyone as optional with any non phone call work outside this I’d look at that first

Well the solution is obviously supports to get proper childcare up and running again and funding for new places to replace those that have shut down.

But you can bet your bottom dollar the government doesn’t give a shit.

You should support people staying at home, and their children not mixing if can be helped (with after school, grandparents), as much as possible. This supports everyone in the long term.

Mine are 8&9 and breakfast & after school isn’t open as classes are in bubbles & it’s not conducive to mixing. It’s literally not open, end of. So from 3pm each day they are here.
Easter they were here- childcare options were parents (not vaccinated yet) & summer camps- not open yet. I took leave for a week but also used most leave one day a week to homeschool.

I am more productive than ever. I can manage my work- it’s shitloads but complete each week.

If you mean 2-4 year olds never minded and at home full time I think you could ask about childcare but should understand some people are worried, vulnerable & for many reasons don’t want to mix childcare bubbles / peoples yet. Be compassionate.

For what it’s worth I think YANBU but having some degree of flexibility works well on both sides. I think it depends hugely on the age of the child and the nature of the job. I’m not going to repeat previous posters.

Nobody has yet mentioned the risks to small children if parents are WFH. In a role where long customer calls are required - what happens to a younger child if they have some kind of accident because they are not being supervised properly ? Does the employer bear any responsibility ? That should also be a consideration.

Wateruniform
Yes I understand what your saying but most people are in the same boat and have to use annual leave.

And when all that annual leave is used up but the wrap around care and holiday clubs still aren't open?

Yes, I definitely have half a year of annual leave, that'll work fine.

But you can bet your bottom dollar the government doesn’t give a shit yip this.

[quote KurtWilde]@CandyflossKid not where we live. Many of our nurseries were unable to survive lockdown and have closed down entirely. I should know, I worked at one of them![/quote]
Yep, there may be non English people on the thread!

@Tinydinosaur

Their kids aren't your responsibility. Yes, no one knew there'd be a pandemic when deciding to have kids. But that doesn't make it anyone's else's job to sort out. You shouldn't be losing money (which you are if you're paying people the same amount to do less work) so they can save money on childcare 🤨 how ridiculous.

Sad attitude. Brings into sharp focus, how far behind the UK is to so many other European countries, in terms of subsidised childcare. But especially now, during a pandemic, this is even more uninformed and lacking in empathy. Why do you think so many couples choose for one parent (usually the lesser earning female) to stay at home with the children? Oh, could it actually be that it doesn't really make financial sense for her working, in order to see all her wages swallowed up by childcare? True feminism, I think not.

Why do you think so many children that grow up in poverty in this country, grow up in households where both parents are working? The struggle between low wages (also some of the lowest in Europe) and high childcare costs, is very real. But you call it ''ridiculous''? I'm genuinely baffled and tired of coming on here and constantly finding these attitudes.

OP, I feel your plight, but please try to look a bit deeper into what you're asking for. You admit that your own children are now teenagers and self-sufficient - but you were once in a similar position, bar the pandemic - which makes this worse for your staff. Instead of taking it out on staff with kids, maybe take it out on the government's constant refusal to subsidise childcare properly. That's where the issue is.

Honesty no one is really being unreasonable. I think people are unhappy and frustrated with the situation and while it’s not unreasonable to say you need them to be properly available or even you need them in the office it’s also very understandable that’s not something they’ll be pleased about as it’s another source of stress. My employer is being very flexible and I’d say most staff (including me) are doing their best to do as much work as they can to the best standard they can. Some people are thriving but more are struggling (children or not) and in general our productivity as an organisation has dropped across the board. I think any flexibility you can offer will be massively appreciated by committed staff. If people are not committed they are also more likely to work around any rules to suit themselves. In the end being stringent is likely to disproportionately impact your more committed staff and it obviously wouldn’t be ideal if they all go and start job hunting as they feel a bit demoralised.

@willandgrace

Again, not trying to antagonise a genuine question (I am already rethinking my approach and looking at summer holidays and core hours to offer a bit more support) what would people do if their employer said they had to go back to the office?

As people have already said, they'd be forced to give up their jobs.

If you can't get childcare, you can't get childcare. No amount of wishing or handwringing is going to change that.

You have kids - if there was NO childcare available (paid/family/friends) what would you have done?

Again, you need to treat your employees as individuals and deal with any actual issues arising -if they get interrupted in meetings or aren't as productive. TALK to them and work
out a tailored solution.

People cannot magic up childcare that no longer exists (or is very much reduced).

@SaltyAF

Those of us who can't WFH are having to pay through the nose for childcare because of the rules. I don't see why those who are already massively privileged by working in the safety of their homes should be expect their employers to pay them if they're actually looking after their children rather than working.

Because childcare isn't available where they are or there's limited childcare with key worker children being given priority

Seriously, people cannot pull childcare out of a hat!!

This is fine for her but the rest of the team, including my dd, are not happy with having work calls scheduled for 8.30pm as they want to have logged off by then
Good lord! I'd be calling my union about that ! That is totally unacceptable.

@Mumtofourandnomore the call would be ended and the DC would be attended to. In what world would there be any other course of action

I find it odd that childcare is still restricted in so many places! All the after school clubs and holiday clubs are back to normal round here, they have been since school reopened to all.