To insist my staff have childcare in place?

[willandgrace]

Several of the staff I manage have young kids, we've supported them all year to WFH with kids at home. We are still primarily working from home but as schools/childcare are now open I have said that people need to have appropriate childcare in place while working from home, the same as they would have if they were office based (as they all were previously) - some of the staff are not happy about this but AIBU?

Given the high numbers of parents arguing for key worker places at school in January because they couldn’t possibly work from home with children around I’m surprised there’s so many parents doing this now. Back in January everybody’s jobs involved far too much confidentiality and sensitive phone calls for the children to be around

I think in normal times breakfast and after-school clubs should be a legal requirement. To be honest if the kids are in school in the day I am not really sure why wrap-around childcare is considered to be so much more high risk.

When my ds went to primary school there was no school-based clubs for years because the local childminders lobbied against it. We did eventually get a breakfast club but he had to go to a childminder after school twice a week. Some people might prefer childminders but the one we used was about 20 mins away while the school was 3 mins away so it was all a bit silly. As far as I know there's still no after-school club except individual clubs like sports clubs which are just an hour after school.

Most childcare for young children has been available all through this last lockdown. Our nursery has been busy. We also can provide wraparound and holiday care. Most parents should be able to access some provision now. Allowances will still need to be made for school or nursery closures due to positive covid cases.

I thought it as a legal requirement / insurance issue to wfh without having childcare in place. This is in case something happens to the child while the parent is busy working etc, so the employer can’t be liable

You thought wrong.

Another one to point to the fact that childcare is not as available as it usually is. I am trying to hire a nanny and there isn't anyone suitable at all, and I am in London and have had no issues in the past 9 years.

No wraparound care. Very few holiday clubs.

We have managed to find 2 different childminders to cover the holidays.

My children are both a bit discombobulated by it all, they are not used to going off to new different places all the time and are especially clingy after the year we've had. So dropoffs have taken a long time and I have missed some meetings.

BUT they are neurotypical and I imagine others like @SimonJT have loads more challenges. I am offended on behalf of all parents - it's bloody rich to accuse us of just keeping the kids at home because we can. Nobody wants to wfh with kids. Nobody.

@Rukaya

But they still interrupt you. That's the whole point, if you were in the office you'd not get interrupted

Lol. Have you ever worked in an office? There are constant interruptions!

This is what I was thinking - so the average workplace is a place of peace and calm,no interruptions,no non work related chats with colleagues ever? Productivity may be down because of stress,tiredness,and boredom as well - any drop may not be due to the presence of children and it might not even be due to wfh as such.It may be the current situation.

Nobody wants to wfh with kids. Nobody.

Really?

I am glad OP is taking this on board btw & understand she is talking about longer term policies. But all the other people going "Why can't you use wraparound care??" We are trying.

@Edtheduck82

YANBU

It's absolutely reasonable to expect staff to organise childcare so that they can work unencumbered. It's actually quite insane to think anyone can do their job properly whilst looking after their children - i know I couldn't! Some people have become used to the flexibility of working from home and are now using it as a cost saving method.

Errr, yes, it is insane, and you are missing the very point! If there is no childcare to avail of, your people manager needs to continue to help support your unorthodox work/parenting hours, while wraparound services come back online.

I have no idea who is using it to “cost save”, all I know is both services in our village have shut and not reopened yet. They will, but until then I thankfully have a manager who allows me to do meetings between 9 - 3pm, and the I work (but not on client facing calls) after that, with kids in the background for a few more hours.

My children are 5 and 7 and it’s do-able. My boss knows I’ll always turn up “with the work done”.

The stress levels are through the roof juggling it, but it’s the only way it can be done while services are unavailable.

@Tumbleweed101

Most childcare for young children has been available all through this last lockdown. Our nursery has been busy. We also can provide wraparound and holiday care. Most parents should be able to access some provision now. Allowances will still need to be made for school or nursery closures due to positive covid cases.

Once again, please don't think this is the case countrywide!

DP loves working from home with his child there and saves money but then she is at 10, older.
I'm surprised at how many providers are not open or running to full capacity though. Round here, loads of childminders, nannies all operating as well as breakfast and after school clubs.

If you look at the voting I think you can see that most people agree with you OP. That said, I think alot of after school clubs are still shut and it would good if you could be supportive of this.

no schoolteachers are teaching with their children playing in the corner.

School teachers have had school places for their children as KW and in the holidays they look after their children. Some teachers have in fact taught remotely with their own children present, I imagine that was extremely stressful for all.

It's so depressing, a few weeks out of this desperate situation and we're all turning on each other suspecting some people are taking the pics and slacking off.

no schoolteachers are teaching with their children playing in the corner.

No but university lecturers have had to teach from home while caring for young children.

What about all the people who’s job doesn't allow them to wfh? They have to use their annual leave or worst still unpaid parental leave. That’s if they can’t get childcare eg holiday clubs. Anyway I thought all nurseries and primary schools were all back to normal except secondary schools? I know it’s the holidays at the moment. I don’t think the op is being unreasonable here. I phoned a well known company about life insurance last week only to get some guy with a crying child in the background? I had to hang up.

Anyway I thought all nurseries and primary schools were all back to normal except secondary schools?

How long do you think primary school opening hours are?

Many informal (ie: free) childcare solutions simply aren't available at the moment, with grandparents shielding or the limits placed on childcare bubbles meaning options are fewer. Perhaps they cannot afford to pay for childcare on their current wages when previously it wasn't an out going. Holiday clubs also have limited capacity at present and aren't suitable for all children - especially those who are already struggling with the events of the past year.

No parent wants to do their job whilst looking after their small children. Even when my kids are home and are being looked after by my partner they will still interrupt me as I am their mum and it is their home.

As for indirect discrimination, parents aren't a protected characteristic but women are, and you may be 'caught out' by discrimination by perception or association. It would not matter that some men were included in your action (I doubt an equal or proportionate number), as they could argue they are impacted by their association or perception of being like a protected characteristic, or that the action could indirectly impact their female spouse. Tenuous perhaps but an absolute HR headache. I would also look at seniority of positions and whether the action limited the ability of women to hold more senior roles, have greater or lesser responsibility, or effectively constructed dismissal through making their role untenable. You would need to tread very carefully.

As a business case, I would say that staff satisfaction and support in the short term would have greater net gains (and less cost) in the longer term - eg more effective in staff retention, staff attitude, organisational reputation and future productivity.

Aside from working PT at a nursery for a couple of years (it closed during covid and hasn't reopened), I've always wfh in my profession, with DC present when necessary. It's a juggling act at times but I've never had any complaints on my output and my DC are far from unhappy/neglected. Balance and flexibility is key.

I thought all nurseries and primary schools were all back to normal except secondary schools? I know it’s the holidays at the moment.

Schools are back but at any moment bubbles can burst then children are home isolating. No childcare allowed but parents. And yes, it's the holidays right now. Holiday clubs & wraparound care aren't open. Grandparents can be allowed but only one set.

A million people have left the UK in the last year. Post Brexit our net EU migration is now negative- nobody is coming here. Who do you think the childcare providers were all along? There are no au pairs. There are no nannies.

Anyway I thought all nurseries and primary schools were all back to normal except secondary schools?

Yep. Our primary school is open 9-3 and three days a week I teach until 3.30.
Thankfully our after school club is open otherwise I don't know how we would work it.
Apparently our after school club is the only one open in our immediate area at the moment.

Agreed, @Tooshytoshine

I find it incredible how many people (women!!) are ready to throw everyone else (other women!!) under the bus.

There seems to be two types of YANBU posters:

1. ‘Well, people who work outside the home have to find childcare.’
   Well. Yes. The salt in my sugar people. But making everyone else do it is only going to make it harder for them, not easier. Increasing the number of people trying to get into the limited childcare places doesn’t help anyone.

2. The ‘you’re paid to work’ crew. If everyone who was currently trying to juggle wfh with childcare quit (or was sacked) tomorrow, what would the impact be on your company? Or on the economy? Or public services? Because that’s the reality.

And none of us are well-served by a third wave, or a prolonging of this already desperately hard situation.

But after school clubs will reopen when the guidance is that it's fine to head back to the office. Making plans for September and deciding on policy then would be sensible.

@womanity

I find it incredible how many people (women!!) are ready to throw everyone else (other women!!) under the bus.

There seems to be two types of YANBU posters:

1. ‘Well, people who work outside the home have to find childcare.’
   Well. Yes. The salt in my sugar people. But making everyone else do it is only going to make it harder for them, not easier. Increasing the number of people trying to get into the limited childcare places doesn’t help anyone.

2. The ‘you’re paid to work’ crew. If everyone who was currently trying to juggle wfh with childcare quit (or was sacked) tomorrow, what would the impact be on your company? Or on the economy? Or public services? Because that’s the reality.

And none of us are well-served by a third wave, or a prolonging of this already desperately hard situation.

And those pointing out clients interrupted on a difficult call isn’t good

And expecting others to pick up work for no extra pay isn’t great either

Flexibility is good for women mostly but everyone should consider others impacted

If it can be done in a way where client or other worker doesn’t get the worst part of it, then good.

womanity agreed. Society and the way we work needs to change but people are too unimaginative to think beyond what currently happens.