Another dog moan - aibu

[Cocothecat27]

I have a small terrier who is quite reactive to other dogs. He's mostly just very barky but he has been known to have a little snap at other dogs if they come up to him, not that he'd do any damage as he's tiny. He seems particularly reactive when he's on lead and other dogs approach him who aren't.

We are working on this, he's still very young. But for this reason he is always on a lead.

Three times this week we have been approached in public places by dogs off lead. The owners always say the same thing - it's ok he/she is fine. But my dog isn't always fine and if he snaps at yours and a fight happens it'll most likely be my very small, on the lead dog that comes off worse.

We had an incident yesterday where a huge dog came bounding over to us which is pretty scary as it is. My idiot dog started going crazy and I had to pick him up.

I tell people sorry he can be a bit snappy at times, as though it's my fault! but if their dog was on a lead too it wouldn't be a problem would it? I'm working on my dog being less reactive but it doesn't help when these things keeps happening. Aibu to find it really annoying?

@Moonface123

I just cannot believe how complicated walking a dog has become. If your dog is unsociable with other dogs you should walk it somewhere quite, like woods or fields not expect all other dogs to be tethered.

Nonsense.

It's not difficult to pop your dog on a lead for thirty seconds. If your dog is sociable and well-trained it's hardly going to be a hardship for either of you.

I agree, all dog owners have a responsibility to ensure their dog has recall. But that doesn't absolve responsibility from someone who knows their dog will bite. It is the responsibility of the biting dog's owner to ensure the dog doesn't bite. Unless it is muzzled, they cannot do that and are therefore putting their own dog and every other dog at risk. I don't understand why so few owners muzzle their dogs. If they can't do it for other people's dogs, surely they would do everything to protect their own?!

But why should we? My dog is perfectly well trained with excellent recall, if I'm aware of a problem I put her on a lead. However, I do wonder why me and the majority of dog owners should be constantly putting our dogs on leads because yours is aggressive. It is not other dog owners' responsibility to prevent your dog from biting.

You choose to take a 15 week puppy to a park where other dogs are free to run around and play then complain about them coming over to investigate your dog. This is what dogs do. Idiot yourself
Why are you being so insulting?

A park is a great place for a 15 week old puppy. It gets them used to different experiences, different smells, different dogs (when both owners consent).
I loved long line training and off lead training one of mine in parks because it was a good opportunity for socialisation too. The result is a well trained dog who will happily walk to heel on and off lead, walk next to the pram, play off lead, good recall, gets on well with other dogs and is overall a very chilled out dog. We also have happily let our dogs approach puppies with their owner's consent when they were training and socialising their dogs.

Off lead dogs should not be running over to check other dogs out. Owners like you seem to think 'it's just what dogs do' are exactly the reason that responsible owners who exercise their dogs off lead end up frustrated with having to defend our dog's perfectly reasonable off lead exercise.

@LemonRoses The nonsense spouted by Impatiensl is what gets responsible dog owners a bad name

Excuse me? What 'nonsense' have I 'spouted'? People have agreed with what I said, which was basic sense for most dog owners.

Luckily the unpleasant and overreactive opinions such as your don't reflect real life - I walk my dog 2 sometimes 3 a day, we have lots of interactions with other dogs and owners and the overwhelming majority are good friendly people.

It does my head in. I have a reactive dog too. But being fair it isn't really off lead dogs that are the problem, it's untrained dogs. One of mine never has a lead. She doesn't approach other people or dogs unless she knows them. The only time she's ever had a scrap is when another dog has jumped her.

The other hasn't been off lead since he was a puppy because he only likes female dogs and neutered males. He can't be trusted.

Then someone's dog comes running up to say hi and oh its OK he's friendly! Good for him! Mine isn't!

Then when I say that, they look at me like I'm crazy and go Its alright love they're just saying hello. Then Ddog2 decides that he's had enough of sniffing nicely and turns into the beast from hell and tries to rip its throat out and suddenly I'm to blame.

As I've said several times I have no issue with well trained dogs off the lead. It's dogs that approach us uninvited. Especially massive ones.

If your dog is well trained and isn't likely to run at another dog, child or person crack on. But if you can't control it's behaviour then surely you can appreciate that other people and dogs might not like it. I wouldn't need to muzzle my dog if other people kept theirs under control and away from us.

I agree, I don’t think dogs should be off leads in most places and if your dog offlead approaches other dogs, doubly so. Mine is young and on lead all the time, mostly because she doesn’t have good recall. But she’s also highly excitable and bouncy and so many offlead dogs approach and then get a shock when shes all over them. Makes me so nervous - last year she was attacked (both dogs on lead, the attacking dog walked past and sniffed her behind and attacked her when she turned around to look!) and I am doubly nervous now. Mine is also small and would not win a fight, i don’t want her to become reactive or fearful but its really hard to not pick her up when large dogs approach without listening to recall.

@Obbydoo

But why should we? My dog is perfectly well trained with excellent recall, if I'm aware of a problem I put her on a lead. However, I do wonder why me and the majority of dog owners should be constantly putting our dogs on leads because yours is aggressive. It is not other dog owners' responsibility to prevent your dog from biting.

Because it's the right thing to do.

Also, not all dogs on leads are on lead because they will bite.

Some are old and deaf/blind. Some are injured and in recovery and shouldn't be running or getting excitement - but they still need exercise. Some don't have good enough recall to be let off the lead yet. Some are still in training as they're teenagers or rescues or new puppies.

It wouldn't hurt you to put your dog on a lead, so why kick up such a fuss about it? Just do the right thing and help other dog owners whose dogs may be struggling.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Frangipani is it you who is a fellow EBT owner?

Your situation sounds like mine. At 2.5 years old he does now have pretty good recall, though it took a long time and a constant supply if balls 😊

But it is exhausting keeping track of them.

How old is your toad?

Yep it's me!

He is 2.5 and just starting to get a bit more chilled......

@Moonface123

I just cannot believe how complicated walking a dog has become. If your dog is unsociable with other dogs you should walk it somewhere quite, like woods or fields not expect all other dogs to be tethered.

Which is exactly where we find all the off lead dogs..............

@Obbydoo

But why should we? My dog is perfectly well trained with excellent recall, if I'm aware of a problem I put her on a lead. However, I do wonder why me and the majority of dog owners should be constantly putting our dogs on leads because yours is aggressive. It is not other dog owners' responsibility to prevent your dog from biting.

If your dog recalls every single time, and you are watching it to be able to do so in the event it does approach other dogs of whom you do not know then this isn’t about you and your dog?

But, in a populated area, for example, a beach area/country park, why wouldn’t you put a lead on? Other dogs aren’t the only risk to your dog.

I really love this quote from Jean Donaldson's The Culture Clash:

"There are not two kinds of dogs: nice dogs who would never bite and less nice dogs who do. Biting is natural, normal dog behavior. This is why it is so prevalent. Biting and threat displays […] are how dogs settle both minor and major disputes and defend themselves from any perceived threat they cannot or opt not to flee from."

[quote ImpatiensI]**@LemonRoses* The nonsense spouted by Impatiensl is what gets responsible dog owners a bad name*

Excuse me? What 'nonsense' have I 'spouted'? People have agreed with what I said, which was basic sense for most dog owners.

Luckily the unpleasant and overreactive opinions such as your don't reflect real life - I walk my dog 2 sometimes 3 a day, we have lots of interactions with other dogs and owners and the overwhelming majority are good friendly people. [/quote]
Extreme arrogance and lack of consideration or reasonable manners. You don’t just let your dog off if you know it will approach others without being invited. It creates problems that you seem oblivious to. The little dog is being defensive not aggressive.
It is the approaching dog that is the aggressor and needs to be controlled. That playful, ‘it’s just a dog being a dog’ is not an acceptable excuse. Dogs being dogs kill livestock, bite humans and frighten other dogs.
You might well walk your dog twice a day. That doesn’t make you particularly knowledgeable or a good, responsible and considerate owner. Having a dog under control through instant recall, walking to heel unless invited to do otherwise or on a lead is what makes you a reasonable person to have control of a dog.

my dogs pretty good, she ignores 80 percent of dogs but the other 20 she likes to go see but I only allow her if the dog is not on a lead and it's a bigger dog as she is fast. of course like most dogs she has selective hearing but is mainly very good. I have noticed though that dogs on leads where the owner immediately changes their body behaviour on seeing a dog off lead and stands still/ picks dog up are actually encouraging dogs to go over, I've seen it many times on my walks with different dogs, if they just carried on walking properly the off lead dog would not feel the need to investigate.

Op, reading all your replies, I genuinely don’t think you should have a dog. So many people are getting dogs and puppies in lockdown, and have no idea of the responsibility that comes with them.

@Oioioioo

Op, reading all your replies, I genuinely don’t think you should have a dog. So many people are getting dogs and puppies in lockdown, and have no idea of the responsibility that comes with them.

Weird comment imo. I swear the OP’s point is that off lead dogs should not approach on lead dogs and should be under good enough control to be able to be called away from on lead dogs if requested by the on lead dog’s owners. She didn’t say that all well trained dogs should be on lead? Surely this is just good sense/manners/basic safety and dog walking etiquette. I think to suggest otherwise shows a lack of understanding of the responsibility of owning a dog. One of a dog owner’s most important responsibilities is to keep their dog safe and under control in public. This means only letting it off lead if it can be reliably called away from dogs and other distractions. OP is being responsible by keeping her dog on a lead and trying to work on its reactivity. Are you suggesting that no one should own reactive dogs?

‘ Are you suggesting that no one should own reactive dogs?’
I’m suggesting that inexperienced owners who can’t seem to fathom that the only thing they can actually control is themselves and their own dogs be behavior are probably not suited to dog ownership at all.

@Oioioioo

Op, reading all your replies, I genuinely don’t think you should have a dog. So many people are getting dogs and puppies in lockdown, and have no idea of the responsibility that comes with them.

Totally agree.

@Oioioioo

‘ Are you suggesting that no one should own reactive dogs?’ I’m suggesting that inexperienced owners who can’t seem to fathom that the only thing they can actually control is themselves and their own dogs be behavior are probably not suited to dog ownership at all.

I think this is obvious to even the most inexperienced owner/person. There is a difference between being so deluded that you think you can control other people’s behaviour and understanding that you can’t control other people’s inconsiderate behaviour and finding having to deal with it annoying. The OP never claimed that they can control other people’s behaviour, they asked if it was unreasonable that they were annoyed by other people’s actions. I don’t think being annoyed by inconsiderate dog owners means that you are not suited to dog ownership. I’m sure that the OP, like everyone other adult on the planet, has realised that she can’t control other people’s actions.

It's not practical though, is it? To try to grab your own dog every time another dog appears in the vicinity on a lead. You'd need the eyes of a hawk in some parks to keep on a dog like that

You either have eyes of a hawk and have trained your dog to have instant, impeccable recall or it should be on a lead in public. If your dog runs up to say hi to on-lead dogs he’s at risk of being attacked by a reactive dog. If you want him off lead you train him out of approaching dogs on leads.

Reactive dogs can be walked safely on leads in public areas, no need to banish them to the countryside or walk them at night in case a bad mannered dog gets in their face; it’s the off lead dogs being put in danger by their owners.

My dog is trained well enough to come to me and sit in front of me looking at me until I give him the ok to go again.

@HikeForward

It's not practical though, is it? To try to grab your own dog every time another dog appears in the vicinity on a lead. You'd need the eyes of a hawk in some parks to keep on a dog like that

You either have eyes of a hawk and have trained your dog to have instant, impeccable recall or it should be on a lead in public. If your dog runs up to say hi to on-lead dogs he’s at risk of being attacked by a reactive dog. If you want him off lead you train him out of approaching dogs on leads.

Reactive dogs can be walked safely on leads in public areas, no need to banish them to the countryside or walk them at night in case a bad mannered dog gets in their face; it’s the off lead dogs being put in danger by their owners.

100% agree with this — when my dog’s reactivity was at its worst point, the number of people who would eventually come and half heartedly remove their dog from the situation entirely of their own making (usually with a snipe about coming away from “the naughty nasty doggy”) was unbelievable. I don’t advocate all dogs being on-lead at all times but if your dog does not have a solid recall and is likely to go running up to unknown dogs, whether on or off lead, they are potentially running into danger.

@Oioioioo what a bizarre comment. What have I done that makes you think I shouldn't own my very well loved dog? We are seeking help from a trainer but as we missed a valuable window of training opportunity when he was a small pup it is taking time. Perhaps he will always be a bit reactive, some dogs are even with training.

If you're referring to picking him up when a huge dog was approaching us then I've acknowledged that was wrong, and a split second decision I made when I panicked. Does wanting to protect him from getting mauled also mean I shouldn't own a dog?

My point was that uncontrollable, badly trained dogs shouldn't be allowed to approach other people or dogs. In what way does that make ME a bad dog owner? I think it's the people that allow and even seem to celebrate such poor behaviour who should probably rethink their dog ownership.

For the hundredth time this isn't aimed at people whose dogs are trained with good recall. If your dog doesn't bother me I couldn't care less if you have it off lead or not.

FWIW I am an inexperienced owner, I've only had one dog before and he was a totally different breed with a much different temperament. I don't think that means I'm not allowed another dog though especially when I'm working hard to improve his behaviour.

I really don't think I am the problem here.