Fed up with everyone leaving London

[Arlington45]

My partner and I are both from London, both sets of parents are in fairly near areas to us. We have no intention of leaving London.

But so many people are. My son (6) keeps having to say goodbye to school friends. Is this going to mess him up, having no sense of security with friends sticking around? I hope at some point it will settle down but at the moment it feels like a mass exodus.

I don't feel pissed off with the people leaving, I get it. But I do feel fed up. AIBU?

Not to mention those who've moved out because their "current" employer is happy for them to WFH. What about when they want to change employer or are made redundant and have to find a new job? They may find that many/most alternative jobs do require presence in their City offices and have to move back again.

I think it depends on your job though, an accountant at PWC who moves to Deloitte or a lawyer at Clifford C who moves to A&O isn't going to find a vastly different remote working policy.

Crikey, this thread turned a corner with the 'London's a dump' bashing. Why can't people accept that some of us are happy to be here and if you really despise it that much, don't bother to visit, let alone stay! We won't mind, seriously.

I am in Yorkshire and I do have super fast broadband 😂

I grew up in London. My DM family are all born and bred Londoner's.

But she could not afford to buy a house and we moved to Yorkshire when I was in my late teens.

I am close to a city and can be in London in 2 hours.

My DH works anywhere in the country but is currently WFH.

I bought my first house when I was 22. Something I wouldn't have been able to do if I had stayed in London.

Lockdown has changed the mindset of many people. My employer has made me a permanent home worker. If I was living in a city in a small flat I would be desperate to spread my wings.

@indi0

randomer - I think it’s because London is essentially a massive cluster of what were once individual villages that have merged over time, each one with a distinct character and vibe. If you stand on top of Hampstead Heath you can see all the church spires that would have once marked each village community.

I came her in my 20s and never left. I’ve lived in Brixton, Bethnal Green, Spitalfields, Pimlico, Chelsea and now Barnes / Putney (to remain a bit vague). Areas constantly evolve and so they should. As I say, where I live now, I can only think of one person I know who was actually born here, but that doesn’t mean there’s no sense of community. Quite the opposite actually! If people move out they tend to come back as they find the suburbs too bland and the countryside too, well, rural . I need a bit of people life and buzz or I go insane!

Same here. Arrived at 23, now about to turn 50 and can't imagine living anywhere else. I've lived north and south of the river and worked in the heart of the centre for two decades. I think I'd die of boredom living in the countryside.

@wobblehut maybe I'm not looking hard enough as I have no clue how both DH and I can get a good job in another UK cities which I'd love to try...

Based on what you describe they are going for a longer commute. In which case I'd rather stay in outskirts of London where i get the best of both worlds... I cant stand 1.5 hour type door to door commutes even if only a day or 2 a week (bet nobody remembers what that feels like...)

London is so nice right now. I don't mind if people move out - it was too busy before

@Twoblueblocks tbf one who went to Manchester was a banker, Bristol an accountant & Edinburgh was a doctor. The others moving to the home counties plan to commute 2-3 days a wk.

In which case I'd rather stay in outskirts of London where i get the best of both worlds... I cant stand 1.5 hour type door to door commutes even if only a day or 2 a week (bet nobody remembers what that feels like...)

This is controversial but I have always preferred moving to another city or market town than z5/6. I have friends in outer zones who easily have 1-1.5 hr commutes & you don't really have the bustling high street so you end up having to travel for everything. I'm z2/3 and love the fact I can go to a bar, restaurant, cinema, shopping, brunch etc within a 15 min walk.

I live in the North and in my job we've noticed an influx of Londoners who are presumably selling their overpriced properties and buying a bigger, better one here for a fraction of the price. The result has been lots of the local schools are now full.

Ah wobble not controversial at all, totally valid. I waver between z5/6 (where I am) and further out market town but the commute cost does it for me. We can walk to cinema, nando's, shops, train station etc. But it's still the suburbs, I do miss z2/3 type neighbourhoods but no way I can afford. Also I only lived there pre kids and dont feel it's where I want my kids to grow up.

I'd love to experience another city like Birmingham but reading upthread I'm worried about diversity (in every sense, of thought, openness etc). Have multiracial DC.

That said, we are likely to move in a couple years, for secondary school... so always on lookout for ideas where!

YANBU OP: I have noticed the same thing. About 7 of DS’s friends have moved out of London (zone 2/3) in the past few months. I grew up in London and am sometimes tempted to move to the middle of nowhere as I Iove the countryside and mountains/forests etc and hate the litter, pollution and overcrowding..
However, on the other hand, I currently have a 25 minute cycle to work and outside covid times I adore central London. Haven’t been into zone 1 much at all since lockdown but I cycled through central London the other day on my way somewhere and just had this pang of absolute love for it. I can’t wait to get back to mooching along the South Bank or looking out at the view of St Paul’s from the Tate modern, or walking in Hampstead Heath. I have moved away for short periods before and have always come back.

@Frogsonglue

blueeyedgirl sounds familiar....it's sort of sweet but also quite tone-deaf and patronising. I'm an incomer here too and I'm sure in years gone by I've been guilty of thinking "now what this place really needs is...", but these days it makes me bristle to hear how dismissive some newcomers are about what goes on here. It's a happy, vibrant community but it ain't Hackney for sure, that's kind of the point. Anyway most people are too busy farming to get involved in the sort of stuff they think we should be doing of a weekend.

In fairness, it happens in parts of London too. I live in an area of London where people who cannot afford a house in Highgate, Islington, Stoke Newington and the like often come. As lefty and liberal leaning as they think they are they struggle with actual diversity and are currently in a bit of a middle class panic about the idea of sending their kids to secondary school with the local born and bred teenagers. Full of helpful suggestions about how the headteacher who has made a great success of one of the local primary schools might want to spend money she raised via charity or run her school. Full of suggestions about workshops and campaigns about noisy pubs and clubs! Most of the people who have lived here for years quite like it as it is!

@LoudestCat14

Crikey, this thread turned a corner with the 'London's a dump' bashing. Why can't people accept that some of us are happy to be here and if you really despise it that much, don't bother to visit, let alone stay! We won't mind, seriously.

It's not a dump at all, it depends on the area in which you live. Of course there are grotty areas but that's the same for any city or town. Where I live is really nice, I have always liked it and plan to stay here or, if I move, very near. I feel safe, plenty of local amenities and green spaces down the road.

@LoudestCat14

Crikey, this thread turned a corner with the 'London's a dump' bashing. Why can't people accept that some of us are happy to be here and if you really despise it that much, don't bother to visit, let alone stay! We won't mind, seriously.

I’m fed up with the ‘everywhere outside London is white with no decent parks, coffee shops or takeaways. Also everyone outside London hates newcomers’. Can we call a truce?

Yes that 'brand new idea' thing happens in my part of London too, eg all the people sanctimoniously posting on social media about getting their milk delivered in glass bottles like the milkman hasn't been delivering round here for 100 years plus

One of the things that puts me off leaving London is car usage. Here public transport is cheap, for £1.50 I can get multiple buses and cross the city, and there’s easy cycling routes. Lots I can walk to.
Growing up outside London I remember the reliance on lifts anyway, getting the car for most things and planning food so much more carefully for shops- rather than easily walking to the shop in two min for anything. I’d hate to go back to driving daily, or even multiple times a week.

We’ve seen a few friends go, but 80-90% of people seem to be stable.

I’m not central, zone 4, I have forest, parks, tons of (often subsidised) kids activities, job flexibility and so much nearby. Food and activities don’t feel more expensive, barring the tourist stuff, and housing costs are met in part by salaries being higher. We’ve done the typical moves in order to up size and we have a decent house with a garden. We wouldn’t actually be able to get that much more property wise in many areas to make a commute worth it.

I don't think this is a new thing. I was born in London, but my parents moved out in the mid 90s. And the town we moved to was full of people who were from London, but moved out due to house prices. I think it's a place people are constantly moving in and out of.

@Oilpiy - we're outside the M25 but have decided to stay central in this town in a house that is walking distance to the station /on a bus route, rather than have the bigger place further out so our teens don't have that issue.

I must say though, when I lived in London in zone 3, I found it was fine if I wanted to go to the centre and back out at weekends, but if I say, had an invite to dinner at a friend's house also zone 3 but in a different area, it would be a taxi or going into the centre and back out again. The fabled London transport is good for getting people from outer areas to zone 1 to work and back, and then around their close area, but not between areas outside the centre. In comparison, most commuter towns aren't much worse.

@wobblehut

How are the government to blame for the expensive housing market in London?

Well low interest rates & help 2 buy schemes haven't helped!

And more recently the stamp duty holiday and 95% mortgages. Really irresponsible of this government.

YABU. Lots of people have always left London when they have kids or when their DC are in primary school. I’m afraid it’s the nature of things, and has worsened because London property is so expensive.

Just promise your DS you’ll facilitate the friebdships keeping going; the exodus should stop amongst his friends in the next few years.

Our DS is 2; we’ve been in London 12 years and are planning on leaving this year. We want to be nearer family, the countryside and to be somewhere quieter and less polluted. Secondary schools are poor in our borough. I’m sad to be leaving our friends here, but many of our friends have already left; it’s time to go.

I let out a hollow laugh every time I read a post about leaving London for a "better lifestyle".

Try seeing how much better your life is in the countryside if you're not white or not straight.

I grew up like that and fought like hell to get to London. Damned if I'm setting foot in rural England for more time than a long weekend again. If one day I can't afford London, it's emigration for me.

Re - the rest of the country is so racist/bigoted/narrow minded etc - I expect everyone will have a different experience and London isn't perfect either. I'm an immigrant, my kids are mixed race, we live in a small town in the North West and we have no issue, lovely neighbour and a great lifestyle. And that's from a former Parisian who'd never planned on leaving the big city. It's not really rural, I couldn't do proper rural, it's a smallish town but close enough to major cities. Works for us!
We were in London for 2yrs, wasn't for us.

Moved away from Greater London over 20 years ago.
Nothing would entice me back.

Really OTT to think your child is going to be "messed up" because people are moving away. Calm down.

Big cities have a transient population. It's just how things are. The only way to get away from that would be to move somewhere smaller, but it sounds like you are happy where you are. So I think you just have to accept it.

Isn't it better for your dc? If people not from London leave to return to their home towns or elsewhere, maybe your dc will be able to afford to stay in their home city.