School calling children piglets?

[GoToSleepBabyPlease]

Came across this on another thread but felt discussing it there would constitute a derail, so bringing it up here.

On a school website (link below):

'To make table manners fun at Hanford we have devised the ‘Manners Table’, a ranking system of eleven different levels with ‘Piglet’ at the bottom and ‘Royal Guest’ at the top. Each level has a different name to describe the behaviour, for example, a messy eater will be a ‘Panda’ or even ‘Cave Lady’ whereas those girls who have mastered dining rather than merely eating will be a ‘Favourite Auntie’ or ‘Best Granny’. When new girls join they start somewhere in the middle with the aim of working their way up as quickly as possible. If they should become a ‘Royal Guest’ they are allowed to bring their own jam to breakfast. Every Friday after lunch, Miss Morrey reads out the week’s manners rankings. If a girl is moved up then they are given a sweet while others may be warned or some even moved down.

1. Royal Guest (allowed to bring their own jam or other spread and can also move people up and down)
2. Best Granny (allowed to move people up and down in manners)
3. Favourite Aunty
4. Primrose
5. Panda
6. Cat (can go to Tuck Shop on Sunday)
7. Squirrel
8. Hyena
9. Boa Constrictor
10. Cave Lady

10. Piglet'

AIBU to think that referring to children as piglets doesn't exactly model good manners?

hanfordschool.co.uk/wellbeing/manners/

I’m massively overthink this in a completely procrastinating type of way. If you’re child goes there out of the ordinary round of things, is it difficult to fit in? Do many children leave at 11? If they stay until 13 then I suppose you have to carry on with private education as they’re unlikely to get a state place at 13.
If it’s lived nearer and had the money and had a daughter I’d send her here but I’d be worried about proper boarding.
I think the gin drinking summer residential may be my best bet. Has anyone booked us in yet? When do we pay the deposit? Are the ponies aware we are coming? I am angling for a talk from the heads wife pre knitting and lights out. If he leaves his job would she lose hers? That wouldn’t go down well in relationships. How could she ever LTB?

@Camdenish I'm also using this thread for procrastination, as well as an opportunity to relive my school days.... so I'll try to answer your questions!
1.) I don't think it's too hard to fit in, and though there might be an initial culture shock you won't be the only one going through it. My now BFF had never lived in the UK when she started at Hanford for instance (but had lived in Hong Kong and Chile) and had never ridden a pony. There were some children who weren't British, but were French or Spanish or Nigerian. There were some children who lived on farms with ponies and Agas, for whom Hanford (I imagine) must have felt immediately familiar. There were children who lived in cities. Because it's a primary school, I don't remember our ever being particularly interested in people's lives outside of Hanford, beyond, say, knowing if they had pets or siblings and what their names were. And given our fairly hazy knowledge of geography, we didn't see coming from Chile as being any more exotic than coming from Scotland, or even Cornwall.
2.) some children do leave at 11+. The majority though leave at 12+ or 13+ and go late to their next schools (though the boys' schools, such as Bryanston don't start until 13+ anyway.) It's true that most of them stay in private education, and continue with boarding - and matching them to the next school, and getting them in, is something that Hanford - and I imagine any prep school - works hard at. A few do go to a state secondary (but late) and if I ever manage to scrape the pennies together for DD to go, she would probably do that (unless she was awarded a significant bursary for a private school.)
3.) Never yet in Hanford's history has the headmaster's wife LTB, but I imagine one day the day will come and then who knows what will happen!!

I apologise if I have been rude to you Puffy. I can't get my head round private education and some of the seemingly strange things about it.
I am turning into an argumentative, narrowminded twit and I need to get out more.

@randomer I don't think you've been rude to me at all!

@Camdenish to continue with point 1, or maybe add to it: the other thing about Hanford is that, even if some of the parents are very very rich, it's not the sort of school that attracts flashy. People don't drive new, expensive cars, children don't stay in 5* hotels in the holidays, and mothers do not turn up sporting Chanel. I imagine parents who want that send their children elsewhere, for conditions at Hanford are pretty Spartan. Think washing in a basin with a flannel, and never quite being warm enough. Also, when I was there, there was no such thing as a loo roll holder - loo roll was strung on binder twine. Bedside tables were all re-purposed apple crates, painted white. Yes, there were beautiful paintings, but carpets were few and far between. The fees all went (and probably still go!) on outstanding teaching and feeding ponies.

@randomer and I agree that it's sad that not all children can or do have the outstanding education that others have (and that I count myself so very fortunate to have had.)

calling Jewish students piglets would be no more offensive to us than to anyone else. We don't have anything against pigs, they're just not kosher. Ditto seals, rabbits, camels, etc

@GoToSleepBabyPlease

They will be modelling a pretty universally-accepted standard of table manners befitting children from families with £30k+ a year to throw at their education.

I think it's more the point that many cultures don't use utensils at the table at all, eating with their fingers etc, and labelling people who can't use a salad fork as a 'cave lady' is a bit problematic. I work in a (very) different school environment to this one, and most kids don't use knives and forks at home, so at school you'll see them attempt to spear a slice of pizza with a fork and nibble around it, or eat baked beans with their fingers. I find the implication that that they're essentially cave people a bit troubling. Smacks a bit of calling other cultures 'savage'.

I totally agree. We are a very multicultural island in the uk and I think it is appalling that children would be subjected to this school’s outdated attitude to an outdated set of rules regarding table manners.

Using knife and fork appropriately and being able to converse with the people you dine with = outdated?

I have to say that I disagree with the posters who find table manners outdated. I think all manners, including table manners are important. Then good table manners can differ between cultures and that is something we all can learn from each other.

If we moved to Asia, I would make sure that my children learned to eat with chopsticks and observe whatever, different, table manners they had in that country. I would be very grateful to a school that helped, provided that the initial learning period was recognised to be due to a cultural difference. I would think it would benefit my children to be able to behave in an appropriate way for that setting.

This appears to be an English school and presumably the parents want an English education. If the school can teach table manners with that, why not?

Thank you so much Puffykins. Very informative and I’m glad we’re able to help you reminisce!

I see what you mean about children
Not really being interested in anything about their contemporaries. Mine could spend hours playing with a new playmate and not know their name.

We don’t have carpets at home either. Everyone has a pair of slippers. Far cheaper. As for apple crates as bedside tables, sounds Green to me!

@LuellaPilkington

Using knife and fork appropriately and being able to converse with the people you dine with = outdated?

Well quite .

We are a very multicultural island in the uk and I think it is appalling that children would be subjected to this school’s outdated attitude to an outdated set of rules regarding table manners
Which bit are outdated @Zoorhik? Using cutlery? Eating with your mouth closed? Not talking with your mouth closed? Along polite conversation with your neighbour??

Being lla multicultural nation is great bit it doesn't mean that anything "English" is automatically shit and to be abolished

@SleepingStandingUp

We are a very multicultural island in the uk and I think it is appalling that children would be subjected to this school’s outdated attitude to an outdated set of rules regarding table manners Which bit are outdated *@Zoorhik*? Using cutlery? Eating with your mouth closed? Not talking with your mouth closed? Along polite conversation with your neighbour?? Being lla multicultural nation is great bit it doesn't mean that anything "English" is automatically shit and to be abolished

Absolutely. However multicultural our society, there will always be occasions on which having conventional British manners matters.

So do you always eat curry with a fork or spoon or Chinese food, African food? Would it not be far more appropriate to also learn the table manners and etiquette of different cultures so that you are not seen as ignorant . This takes me back to when a health visitor reported her concern to me that a south Asian toddler was sitting on the floor , eating with their hands with their mother.

@Zoorhik when I was at Hanford, we did learn about other cultures too.
However, everything we ate at school was fairly standard British food that was best eaten with a knife and fork - Shepherds Pie, Toad in the Hole, Steak and Kidney Pie Etc. with seasonal vegetables that were all grown in the garden (the vegetables are still all grown in the garden.) As the school is in Dorset, the vegetables were, predictably, things like carrots, cabbage, broad beans etc., ie still best eaten with a knife and fork. Pudding would be a crumble made with fruit from the garden (I used to dread rhubarb season, though I love it now!) or something sponge and custard, which was best eaten with a spoon and fork.
Those children who came from somewhere where using a knife and fork was not traditional would be shown how to use them, and given ample time to get used to them etc., and not judged (or moved down in manners for not being able to use them.)

@Puffykins - I think your school sounds absolutely lovely! This argument about using different cutlery for different foods is stupid. We are in England and we teach our children the appropriate table manners for English/British food. Should they want to eat Chinese or Indian style, then fine they can learn to use chopsticks, etc. I do draw the line at any people eating food with their fingers, though. I find it absolutely disgusting and unnecessary.

Working in a boarding prep, I think dining room etiquette is one thing we get to practice 3 x as much as a regular day school, and I think it’s well worth the extra time we spend on it. Our children children learn to judge situations and adapt their behaviours appropriately. The eat politely and know how to behave at the table but it isn’t all stuffy and old fashioned. We equally encourage the use of chop sticks when eating certain Asian cuisine and it’s even better when you see Asian pupils teaching their Western peers. And... when we order Dominos on a Saturday night they will happily devour it in the common rooms, using their fingers and sometimes straight from the box!

Oh, I like that! I think I will print it off and put it up in my dining room .

@Puffykins, you are a wonderful advocate for your old school! Their Development Office ought to hire you for fundraising. Hanford sounds wonderful in many ways and I, for one, have no trouble with the manners hierarchy. I’m more sceptical about the desirability of handing around crudités for the hunt. I’d prefer a more feminist approach to helping little girls to overcome shyness.

On the other hand, did you ever read Kazuo Ishiguro’s “Never let me go”? If not, you should! Your nostalgia for Hanford was so like the narrator’s for Hailsham that it was just a wee bit unnerving...

More importantly, @Puffykins, can you please run the summer camp!? And sneak us out onto the roof for midnight gin and jam?? Pleeeeeeeeeease!

@FatAnneTheDealer I have not read it! Only seen it. But I shall read it forthwith - thank you!

@SirSamuelVimes you're on.

@Zoorhik

So do you always eat curry with a fork or spoon or Chinese food, African food? Would it not be far more appropriate to also learn the table manners and etiquette of different cultures so that you are not seen as ignorant . This takes me back to when a health visitor reported her concern to me that a south Asian toddler was sitting on the floor , eating with their hands with their mother.

But theres nothing to suggest they aren't learning about other cultures and traditions, but you haven't answered the qn. Which bit of "British manners" are you objecting to? That has nothing to do with learning about other cultures.

[quote MagicSummer]@Puffykins - I think your school sounds absolutely lovely! This argument about using different cutlery for different foods is stupid. We are in England and we teach our children the appropriate table manners for English/British food. Should they want to eat Chinese or Indian style, then fine they can learn to use chopsticks, etc. I do draw the line at any people eating food with their fingers, though. I find it absolutely disgusting and unnecessary.[/quote]
Do you never let the kids eat pizza with their hands? Sandwiches? The best bit of chip shop chips as kids was eating them from the bag with your hands!

Stupid rubbish.

In some homes,eating with cutlery is not the norm.