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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the UK could do with more communal rituals?

89 replies

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 14:27

This may sound strange and will be long, so please bear with me.

I’ve been a long-time reader of these boards and this is my first thread. Reading about your struggles and joys on here has made me empathise more than I thought I could. I think we’re living in a crisis at the moment, exacerbated by but not caused by covid: of mental health, of loneliness, of purpose. People live to work and so many are falling into poverty and using food banks. Community services have been stripped back leading to crime and poorer childhood outcomes. You only have to read the myriad of threads on here describing how men treat women horrifically, whether in a family or relationship or just in the wider world, to recognise the ongoing sexism women face. Systemic racism remains a huge issue in the UK, which leads to poorer economic and life outcomes for particular groups, and is fomented by sections of politics and the media who would rather have those of lower economic means divided on racial lines than fight for their own rights.

Even in groups who don’t suffer as much from inequality, such as the white middle class (a group I belong to), many primarily find purpose and happiness through consumerism, in their next holiday, car, home improvements, buying stuff for their kids, ensuring their kids’ economic success, etc. It’s not to say they don’t get happiness from relationships, but studies show people are lonelier nowadays and have smaller networks. That quick hit of pleasure we get from buying something can often fill a void, can create a perceived sense of ‘social status’ and self-satisfaction, that in the past was perhaps filled with meaningful relationships and interactions outside of the home. I feel like the last couple of years of my life have felt like that, at least.

Because it’s Easter and lockdown it’s got me thinking of why we have these four days off, so I watched a documentary this morning about how Easter is celebrated in other European countries. I was struck by how huge Easter celebrations are, from villages in Slovenia to cities like Seville. Large communities come together and care about taking part and putting great effort into preparing for public processions, theatre events, dance performances, group crafts, etc. And not all of these festivals are religious - some simply mark the start of Spring, of new life, and have been celebrated similarly for millennia. Religious or not, these festivals encourage people to celebrate together and to think about some of the bigger questions: life, death, what sustains us, why we’re here, etc.

It got me thinking that the main rituals we retain in the UK are individualistic ones: baby showers/‘gender reveals’/baptisms, weddings, birthday parties and funerals. Communities don’t tend to get together other than when an individual or a couple decides to celebrate themselves. On this point, my husband and I eloped because we were horrified by the prospect of having to invite lots of people who had never met, and who we rarely see, to celebrate our wedding together (that included our parents, who don’t get on). Had we lived in a community where people already knew each other, we may have made a different decision. We’ve been married for several years now and we’ve also decided not to have children. Once again, our decision would’ve been different had we lived in another situation or country. The idea of bringing up kids in the individualistic slog that is the UK rat race, with unbelievable childcare costs, fragmented communities, the negative economic impact of maternity leave on women, etc. is just not something we can sign up for. Even after kids are born it takes a lot of organisation to get them into activity groups, when in the past they’d naturally go out and play with neighbours’ kids for hours at a time (dangerous, I know, but the benefits of this kind of early independence are surely huge, and the bonding is not so enforced or controlled).

Does anyone else ever think about this kind of thing? How can we get community cohesion back and a bit more meaning into our lives that doesn’t just involve buying stuff? Volunteering is one thing that I’ve done and is so important, but at the same time it’d be good to have some rituals back that unite us to others in our community through celebration rather than just charity. I wonder if it’s all lost forever. All this could be because I grew up in a large town and currently live in a small city, so if you do live in or are part of a smaller community and have (probably pre-covid!) experience of regular, ongoing festivals or rituals where most of the community participate, I’d love to hear about it.

OP posts:
DinosaurDiana · 02/04/2021 14:37

I often read on here about people who have no friends, no social circle, (and I include myself in this ) and it made me think of the various social clubs that were in the town I grew up in.
There was a Catholic club, a Labour and Conservative club, Cricket/rugby/bowls/squash/tennis clubs, and a social club associated with a football club.
Our parents frequented these clubs on a a Friday and Saturday night, weddings and christening were celebrated there, bingo for the grandmas, and they had the occasional fete days for the kids.
Generations of families attended, and there were groups of friends. If anyone was having a problem people were happy to help. Young people drank under the watchful eye of their parents and their friends.
There was a great sense of community in these places, it’s a shame they are few and far between now.

DinosaurDiana · 02/04/2021 14:41

The village I live in now used to have a fete every year. There was a procession of lorries which had been dressed up. The Brownies/Guides did one, the local playgroup, the young farmers etc. And a brass band marched in front. The villagers would line the route then fall in behind as it passed, and we’d all go to the fete.
It has been stopped due to the police not wanting to shut the road for 30 minutes (there’s another way around), and apparently the insurance price is too high. The fete is still on but it’s poor now so not worth going.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 14:46

@DinosaurDiana Thank you for your responses. I hadn't thought about community clubs along with festivals/rituals, but I agree they definitely must have played a huge part in keeping communities together, giving people purpose and helping people's mental health. The fete sounds lovely, it would be nice to live somewhere where there was an expectation that everyone just took part and put effort in. The underfunding of these kinds of things by the government and larger organisations is so damaging and I don't know what it will take for people to start running these things again.

Though it was less acceptable to talk about mental health problems in the past (so the numbers probably weren't as low as the statistics show), I still do think that in the past people had more opportunities to care about others and and were therefore not so inward looking all the time, and they suffered less 'existential' anxiety.

OP posts:
TheGoogleMum · 02/04/2021 14:50

I watched the episode of parks and rec with the harvest festival recently, I wish we had something similar where I live!

gracelessladyhottramp · 02/04/2021 14:58

Oh my goodness - this sounds like the sort of thing I'm always talking about. I don't have time to read/reply properly at the moment but will definitely come back later.

QuentininQuarantino · 02/04/2021 14:58

I agree. I half Spanish half English and in Spain there is a fiesta every time someone sneezes, some week long affairs with every age involved and things taken very seriously indeed, and in Britain we have bonfire night which I LOVE but wish we had more things like that. Village fetes used to be nice didn’t they? I grew up in a big town which had nothing but enjoyed visiting friends’ village events.

Maybe the Brexit festival will fill the niche!?

NewVariable · 02/04/2021 15:00

The idea of bringing up kids in the individualistic slog that is the UK rat race, with unbelievable childcare costs, fragmented communities, the negative economic impact of maternity leave on women, etc. is just not something we can sign up for.

This has nothing to do with communal rituals. And I think those rituals disapeared because people fled them as soon as they could. For a good reason - they were not voluntary.

caramac04 · 02/04/2021 15:02

I grew up and brought my kids up on a village. The community was a very valuable part of our lives, friendships, fallouts, fetes, horticulture show, dramas, village life had it all.

We moved to a small town 20 years ago and I haven’t made a friend here. There are lots of positives to living where I do but I do miss village life and would move to one if I could but my children are grown and settled here now.
I think the idea of community/society rituals is wonderful. We did the clapping for the nhs and hope to have a street party this summer but something other would be fabulous. Maybe the ‘Be grateful’ memes might encourage a few minutes of daily reflection amongst the busy hurly burly of life.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 15:06

@NewVariable I admit my post turned into a bit of a stream of consciousness, but I can see the connection between the two things.

Community cohesion is improved by group activities, a social calendar, shared traditions. In the past communities with such cohesion also made it easier to have children. Children are often involved in all of these shared traditions, they are family friendly and mean parents aren't shut away thinking of the next child-friendly (often expensive!) activity to take their kids to.

This is just an idea, but if we had more of a mentality of community responsibility (encouraged by partaking in rituals, group activities, etc) we might change our mentalities to view childcare as a social necessity, and thus be encouraged to fund it more centrally, for example.

I do think there are harmful versions of ritual e.g. heavily religious ones that should absolutely be voluntary. But there are good types, as previous posters have referenced. I think we need to get those back.

OP posts:
reprehensibleme · 02/04/2021 15:06

Yes, our town used to have a lots of different clubs and societies, from andram and operatic to all sorts of sports, fetes, coffee mornings, flower and produce shows, band concerts etc. Many things stopped because no-one seems to want the effort of organising, there is so much red tape with CRB, insurance, H&S.

We have a town carnival week - it used to be lovely, really family oriented with fancy dress compettiions and parades, children's sports days, fair, agricultural show but everything these days seems to involve people drinking as much alcohol as possible starting at about 8am and tbh it's become something I wouldn't take kids to. I have a friend who works in the local Post Office and she told me they were closing at lunch time on fair Saturday last year - I assumed so the staff could join in with the festivities, but no, it was because they had so many drunken yobs in the PO abusing the staff the previous year the manager had decided to close early for safety.

Nobody seems to be able to even watch a school sports day or go to the park without a 'cheeky' G&T, which rapidly turns into several G&T and a bottle of wine and a case of lager.

And I think you're right about things only happening on an individual level - but I'm guessing that's all about the retail opportunity, being sold 'stuff' so we can celebrate Hmm, so you can't just have friends round for lunch - you have to buy outdoor entertaining equipment and fairy lights and a blow up pool and bouncy castle and a barbecue and drinks chiller, and a huge sound system to annoy your neighbours. You can't just have family round to celebrate the arrival of a baby but you have to have reveal parties and baby showers with decorations and games and favours and balloon arches - it all seems to be about the retail, not about the people getting together. There's a thread going at the moment - woman trying to get out of spending thousands to attend hen party, bridesmaid party.

It all just seems so shallow and the opposite of community minded.
Rant over Grin

YoComoManzanas · 02/04/2021 15:09

I grew up in a large rural village which had a fete every year. The church would put on a summer bbq in the vicarage. The village hall was used regularly. There was a cricket team and other sports in the village sports hall. My Dad was a member of some of these and have fond memories of crisps and pop in the cricket club house. You would always bump into someone you knew. We moved to a largish town which had similar but more spread out. The traditional town flower festival turned into a giant piss up during the 90s with gangs of youths wrecking the town. It stopped running. The bull ring and corn exchange closed down and the town has become a bit of a dive. I moved away for uni along with many of my peers and only return to visit family. I do feel isolated from my family. Live in a city now which does have events but they don't feel as community spirited iyswim. I guess the church used to host a lot of these thing and bring a community together but I am atheist so don't feel comfortable going.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 15:09

@gracelessladyhottramp glad to hear I'm not the only one! Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

@QuentininQuarantino Pre-covid I love visiting Spain, not just to see the religion-based festivals but also some of the more pagan ones too. There are some really cool ones in the north - Asturias I think? - that mix more pagan-style ideas with Christianity, to celebrate the seasons.

Bonfire night is a great example. I've been to the celebrations in Lewes and Hastings as a visitor and they were great - only wish I lived there so could I got involved more!

OP posts:
AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 15:11

Before the shitshow, I'd say that was very much an option in my part of
London.

People who say it isn't there, did you look for it?

I certainly wouldn't want to feel pressured.

And of course you can just have friends for lunch. Is that a champagne problem? I live in a small flat, not much of a cook, still have friends for lunch.

IVflytrap · 02/04/2021 15:13

We used to have community focused events and celebrations until relatively recently in our history. For example, even into the 90s, the boring SE English commuter town I grew up in had May Day celebrations with a May Queen crowning, maypole dancing and a parade. They were gone by the millennium. We could bring these sort of things back, I just think no one has the time or energy these days. Or the funds, for that matter. A lot of the money set aside in the past for community has just disappeared.

medebourne · 02/04/2021 15:13

totally agree OP.

LadyCatStark · 02/04/2021 15:13

That was a very long post 😂 but fundamentally, I agree with you. I think, rather than pulling together as a community, we’re becoming further and further apart.

As an example, yesterday DS (11) rode his new BMX to our local park. He was on his own and wanted to practice his bunny hops on the empty car park. 2 older men came along and one of them told DS off and to. ‘Go and have a good look at the sign’ as apparently no bikes are allowed on the park (he wasn’t on the park and the sign is at the entrance to the park). He then said ‘does this look like a cycle track?’. Well no it’s not a cycle track... but there isn’t a cycle track anywhere near our house. There’s no skate park, no safe roads and bikes aren’t allowed on the coastal path either. Clearly there’s nothing that can be done inside at the moment either, so what’s a sensible, polite 11 year old meant to do these days?

The same old people are constantly whinging about “loitering youths” on the village FB page, which amounts to groups of teenagers playing games of football or rounders 🙄. This park could be a fantastic space to be used by the whole village but unless your trudging slowly around the path that goes around the edge of the field you’re “up to no good”. Oh and they hate that I run around the track too 😂 but there’s no sign up to say no running! Incidentally, there is a sign to say dogs must be on leads but I don’t go mad when they run under my feet because they’re not on leads. It’s such a shame that people these days see anyone who isn’t doing exactly what they’re doing as in the wrong and there’s no sense of community anymore.

LadyCatStark · 02/04/2021 15:14

Oops I think my post ended up being longer than yours 🙈.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 02/04/2021 15:15

I think it really depends on where you live.

Where I am, in normal times, there's always something on on Bank Holiday weekends - mostly country fairs or village fetes, generally with a fell race attached. The bigger ones will have dog shows as well - normally foxhounds, beagles, lurchers, whippets and terriers.

They also have local food stalls, craft fairs, and displays of things like fell ponies and other animals. The really big ones will have various races (like a kids' sports day), silly animal competitions (cutest dog, waggiest tail etc.), agility courses you can try, bouncy castles, fake climbing walls, donkey rides etc.

I'd say they happen every BH weekends between Easter and September. It was very weird not going last summer!

lavenderlou · 02/04/2021 15:16

One of the main reasons I go to church (in ordinary times) is the community aspect and the chance to meet with others regularly. That is certainly far more important to me than any religious aspects. I think religious worship (of any religion) still provides an excellent opportunity for community interaction. It's a shame there aren't more options for people who aren't interested in the religious stuff.

CodySchmody · 02/04/2021 15:17

I've just been reading Goodnight Mister Tom with my 10 year old and it has made me think a bit about how things were then (village plays and everyone pulling together to organise a school etc) and how different it is now.

Our road do an annual road closure (arranged with official permit to close the road for 3 hours). It has been a brilliant way to meet everyone, share food with each other and for the kids to play on the street safely. It's called Active Streets and I highly recommend it!

Info 👇
http://spacemaker.club/active-streets/

Bobbots · 02/04/2021 15:18

I do agree OP although I lived in a country that was both very collectivist and focused on community whilst also being very consumeristic/materialistic. So the two aren’t necessarily linked. Collectivist cultures can also lead to a “keeping up with the joneses” mentality that encourages people to spend money to ensure people think highly of them. That is particularly true in the Asian country where I lived where weddings would often be saved for 20+ years because families needed to impress each other by hosting well, providing lots of expensive food, entertainment etc. It’s very rare in those cultures to not give a shit what other people think so it means you are constantly having to live up to other people’s expectations and norms.

But I agree we definitely need more of a sense of community to combat loneliness and mental health problems. Events and rituals would be one way, but also clubs - in several Scandinavian countries most adults are part of at least one club eg choir, tennis,
Kayaking etc whereas it seems more rare here. People of working age are often working too long hours with long commutes - usually thanks to high housing costs - to do that stuff in the week and then the weekend seems to be “family time” which is tough for people who are single.

the80sweregreat · 02/04/2021 15:22

@reprehensibleme

Yes, our town used to have a lots of different clubs and societies, from andram and operatic to all sorts of sports, fetes, coffee mornings, flower and produce shows, band concerts etc. Many things stopped because no-one seems to want the effort of organising, there is so much red tape with CRB, insurance, H&S.

We have a town carnival week - it used to be lovely, really family oriented with fancy dress compettiions and parades, children's sports days, fair, agricultural show but everything these days seems to involve people drinking as much alcohol as possible starting at about 8am and tbh it's become something I wouldn't take kids to. I have a friend who works in the local Post Office and she told me they were closing at lunch time on fair Saturday last year - I assumed so the staff could join in with the festivities, but no, it was because they had so many drunken yobs in the PO abusing the staff the previous year the manager had decided to close early for safety.

Nobody seems to be able to even watch a school sports day or go to the park without a 'cheeky' G&T, which rapidly turns into several G&T and a bottle of wine and a case of lager.

And I think you're right about things only happening on an individual level - but I'm guessing that's all about the retail opportunity, being sold 'stuff' so we can celebrate Hmm, so you can't just have friends round for lunch - you have to buy outdoor entertaining equipment and fairy lights and a blow up pool and bouncy castle and a barbecue and drinks chiller, and a huge sound system to annoy your neighbours. You can't just have family round to celebrate the arrival of a baby but you have to have reveal parties and baby showers with decorations and games and favours and balloon arches - it all seems to be about the retail, not about the people getting together. There's a thread going at the moment - woman trying to get out of spending thousands to attend hen party, bridesmaid party.

It all just seems so shallow and the opposite of community minded.
Rant over Grin

I completely agree. Simple things in life have been made a commercial enterprise.
CuthbertDibbleandGrubb · 02/04/2021 15:24

OP I think you raise a valid point. When mines, shipyards and other industries were closed down, some of the cohesiveness of many communities went, especially in the midlands and the north of England but not exclusively. Our housing affordability crisis which has existed for at least 25 years has not helped.

Christmas seems to be the only occasion which is celebrated (in normal times) by most people. Perhaps in part the fact we are four nations contributes to this disparate nature of events.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 15:25

@LadyCatStark That is so sad and very strange! I can't believe we live in a society where people prefer to bond over criticising or reporting others, rather than by having fun together.

@CodySchmody thank you for that link, I'll definitely look into that for post-covid local celebrations. It's a great option for more urban areas.

I think I would prefer to live somewhere more rural with local traditions, fetes taking place on the bank holiday, etc., but it's not possible at the moment because of work. Bringing back traditions, festivals and rituals for more urban communities is so important.

OP posts:
Bimblybomeyelash · 02/04/2021 15:26

We have a lovely May Day festival where I live. Everyone gets involved. Sadly cancelled for the second year in a row.

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