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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the UK could do with more communal rituals?

89 replies

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 14:27

This may sound strange and will be long, so please bear with me.

I’ve been a long-time reader of these boards and this is my first thread. Reading about your struggles and joys on here has made me empathise more than I thought I could. I think we’re living in a crisis at the moment, exacerbated by but not caused by covid: of mental health, of loneliness, of purpose. People live to work and so many are falling into poverty and using food banks. Community services have been stripped back leading to crime and poorer childhood outcomes. You only have to read the myriad of threads on here describing how men treat women horrifically, whether in a family or relationship or just in the wider world, to recognise the ongoing sexism women face. Systemic racism remains a huge issue in the UK, which leads to poorer economic and life outcomes for particular groups, and is fomented by sections of politics and the media who would rather have those of lower economic means divided on racial lines than fight for their own rights.

Even in groups who don’t suffer as much from inequality, such as the white middle class (a group I belong to), many primarily find purpose and happiness through consumerism, in their next holiday, car, home improvements, buying stuff for their kids, ensuring their kids’ economic success, etc. It’s not to say they don’t get happiness from relationships, but studies show people are lonelier nowadays and have smaller networks. That quick hit of pleasure we get from buying something can often fill a void, can create a perceived sense of ‘social status’ and self-satisfaction, that in the past was perhaps filled with meaningful relationships and interactions outside of the home. I feel like the last couple of years of my life have felt like that, at least.

Because it’s Easter and lockdown it’s got me thinking of why we have these four days off, so I watched a documentary this morning about how Easter is celebrated in other European countries. I was struck by how huge Easter celebrations are, from villages in Slovenia to cities like Seville. Large communities come together and care about taking part and putting great effort into preparing for public processions, theatre events, dance performances, group crafts, etc. And not all of these festivals are religious - some simply mark the start of Spring, of new life, and have been celebrated similarly for millennia. Religious or not, these festivals encourage people to celebrate together and to think about some of the bigger questions: life, death, what sustains us, why we’re here, etc.

It got me thinking that the main rituals we retain in the UK are individualistic ones: baby showers/‘gender reveals’/baptisms, weddings, birthday parties and funerals. Communities don’t tend to get together other than when an individual or a couple decides to celebrate themselves. On this point, my husband and I eloped because we were horrified by the prospect of having to invite lots of people who had never met, and who we rarely see, to celebrate our wedding together (that included our parents, who don’t get on). Had we lived in a community where people already knew each other, we may have made a different decision. We’ve been married for several years now and we’ve also decided not to have children. Once again, our decision would’ve been different had we lived in another situation or country. The idea of bringing up kids in the individualistic slog that is the UK rat race, with unbelievable childcare costs, fragmented communities, the negative economic impact of maternity leave on women, etc. is just not something we can sign up for. Even after kids are born it takes a lot of organisation to get them into activity groups, when in the past they’d naturally go out and play with neighbours’ kids for hours at a time (dangerous, I know, but the benefits of this kind of early independence are surely huge, and the bonding is not so enforced or controlled).

Does anyone else ever think about this kind of thing? How can we get community cohesion back and a bit more meaning into our lives that doesn’t just involve buying stuff? Volunteering is one thing that I’ve done and is so important, but at the same time it’d be good to have some rituals back that unite us to others in our community through celebration rather than just charity. I wonder if it’s all lost forever. All this could be because I grew up in a large town and currently live in a small city, so if you do live in or are part of a smaller community and have (probably pre-covid!) experience of regular, ongoing festivals or rituals where most of the community participate, I’d love to hear about it.

OP posts:
TeenMinusTests · 02/04/2021 15:28

You need to move to Ambridge. Archers Smile

pastabest · 02/04/2021 15:31

All this communal stuff needs people to run and organise it.

By people I mean mostly women and retirees.

Women who are now mostly in work as that is now required to have any standard of living on middle or low incomes.

Retirees who are now much older than they once were due to retirement ages being raised generally and again women's retirement ages being raised to be in line with men.

Make it so that once again people can afford to have one parent at home and that people can retire before they are too elderly to really enjoy it and some of the community stuff might start to make a reappearance.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 15:32

@Bobbots
That's an interesting and useful perspective, I can see how community cohesion and rituals do not necessarily preclude materialism, keeping up with the Joneses, etc. I guess there is no perfect model. But I do think some kind of community cohesion is important to combat rampant individualism. I think I'd rather buy a nice dress to show off at the village fete than to post on Instagram to my unknown followers, if that makes sense Grin

OP posts:
AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 15:34

@pastabest

All this communal stuff needs people to run and organise it.

By people I mean mostly women and retirees.

Women who are now mostly in work as that is now required to have any standard of living on middle or low incomes.

Retirees who are now much older than they once were due to retirement ages being raised generally and again women's retirement ages being raised to be in line with men.

Make it so that once again people can afford to have one parent at home and that people can retire before they are too elderly to really enjoy it and some of the community stuff might start to make a reappearance.

The things I went to largely had working people organising them.

Perhaps I'm lucky but I think there is most definitely stuff around. Not massive but I prefer that.

I might have got the wrong end of the stick as no one has answered my question!

QuiteContraryMarie · 02/04/2021 15:35

I agree OP. I’m not from the UK but I do feel like sometimes the UK tries so hard to be all things to all people that it ls having an identity crisis. I felt that this was evident at Pimlico Academy this week where the head caved to students demands to remove the Union Jack. I mean, if you can’t be proud of your country and the flag and all it stands for, then who are you? What are you? The country is divided and segregation is becoming more apparent. The cancel culture means people are scared of healthy open debate.
I look back to 2012, the olympics year and wow, was it only 9 years ago? I miss the UK of 2012.

murbblurb · 02/04/2021 15:36

it's an interesting point, OP. But your sunlit past has several problems:

  • a lot of the rituals are connected with religion. No thank you.
  • as others point out, too many of the great British public think they only had a good time if they can't remember it due to alcohol. In other countries being roaring drunk is seen as disgusting or criminal, here it is often seen as essential.
  • organising all these things; many in my village can't be arsed to leave their houses even in normal times. Also you have both parents working and the pressure to get kids doing 'activities' rather than kids entertaining themselves and each other. So no-one has any money or energy. It is demoralising to organise events where people just don't turn up because they've gone shopping.

I wish I had the answers.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 02/04/2021 15:38

@pastabest

All this communal stuff needs people to run and organise it.

By people I mean mostly women and retirees.

Women who are now mostly in work as that is now required to have any standard of living on middle or low incomes.

Retirees who are now much older than they once were due to retirement ages being raised generally and again women's retirement ages being raised to be in line with men.

Make it so that once again people can afford to have one parent at home and that people can retire before they are too elderly to really enjoy it and some of the community stuff might start to make a reappearance.

I don't think that's generally the case at all, to be honest. Certainly not around here, anyway.

All the ones I attended (pre-COVID) were run by local companies and everyone running it was paid to be there. Yes, stallholders had to pay for their "pitch" but they were run by local businesses and they made good money attending those events.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 15:39

@AcornAutumn yes, very true - though those who do not look for it may not do so because they don't think it exists, because it's not perceived as the norm in their social circle - so it's a bit of a self-perpetuating cycle. People begin to think things like that don't happen, so they don't get involved, and then they die out?

To the posters who have mentioned economic and gender implications for why these things are less common, you're absolutely right. Though I do think that our lifestyles are also to blame - we have a lot of easy but unfulfilling entertainment and social contact on tap through the internet, and are less active in general, so perhaps getting up and going out to organise things is just less appealing and deemed unnecessary.

OP posts:
Gerla · 02/04/2021 15:41

I agree OP. I'm in Italy and there are still a lot of community events - not this year though. Sad I also think that @pastabest is right. Growing up in a village we had loads of community events but people don't want to organize them now as everyone is so busy. Plus insurance!!

LondonJax · 02/04/2021 15:42

We live in a small market town. Pre Covid we used to have an Easter Procession - the normal kind, carrying in the cross down the high street to the church. The high street was normally busy with people.

On Remembrance Sunday we would be 10 deep around the memorial with children doing the readings - our vicar is very hot on including the children in religious ceremonies as they're the future of the church.

We'd have three community music weekends - local bands, tribute bands in the summer and a folk festival in the autumn including a parade of folk dancers from as far a field as Poland.

Christmas would involve a big parade of the school kids who would have made themed decorations which they would carry from school to church in the evening. That was headed up by Father Christmas. Then we'd pile into the church if we were so inclined. The kids would have a quick 20 minute service of Christmas hymns then the vicar would go outside to bless the high street Christmas tree and the community. Hymns and Christmas songs sung around the tree. Then the Christmas market would be officially opened and we'd spend an evening with most of the town turning out. The bars/cafes and restaurants made more that night every year than in November most of the time.

All of us can't wait for it all to come back. Meanwhile we'll all continue to say hello to people we don't actually know in our high street because it's nice to feel wanted!

CodySchmody · 02/04/2021 15:45

@CodySchmody thank you for that link, I'll definitely look into that for post-covid local celebrations. It's a great option for more urban areas.*

Definitely do - it is always so much fun and needs very little work to make it happen. Even if you can't access Active Streets, it is quite easy to organise a road closure and people are generally enthusiastic.

TeenMinusTests · 02/04/2021 15:48

We have a summer carnival, a winter carnival, christmas lantern parade, FC being rescued by the local firefighters, a weekend music festival, a mayors picnic (fete), procession and outside service on Remembrance Sunday, outside town carols. It's lovely.

LauristonLane · 02/04/2021 15:57

Has social media had an effect?
We don't need to meet up, we don't need to set foot outside of the house, we can even sell our wares.
Perhaps this has made us less social.

PomBearWithoutHerOFRS · 02/04/2021 16:00

Could it be that nowadays, so many people have to work long hours and/or commute, just to make ends meet.
Years ago, generally, there were lots of families where one parent was at home and had plenty of time for clubs and societies and suchlike.
The working one would also probably have had more leisure time too.
And there wasn't as much to distract people at home - no screens or mobile devices, to interact with friends you had to leave the house.
My mother (in her 70s) still goes (before covid) to lots of social groups, and as a child I went to brownies and guides, and played in an orchestra.
Now, even the school youth clubs (which were free!) are all gone.
People get home from work now and just want to sit staring at a screen. They're too tired to do "outside stuff" and I think there's also a perception that anything nice will be spoiled by "them" (with them varying according to where someone lives and their socioeconomic status) so they don't bother trying to do things.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 16:03

@PomBearWithoutHerOFRS Yes, it must play a huge role. I'm really interested in the trials they are running of four-day work weeks - some of the early ones show that people are more productive if they concentrate for four days solid rather than having to spread the work over five days.

If a family can't live off one income, a three day weekend could help us get back the work-life balance that was more common a few decades ago, and have more time for our communities.

OP posts:
2bazookas · 02/04/2021 16:12

I live in Scotland. Maybe it's different here. But (until covid) the communities I've lived in all have an annual social calendar packed with communal events and festivities. In addition there are one-off events , groups of volunteers who offer services and support, organise fundraising events the whole community is invited to etc. It's a complete cross-over of varied interests and people from all walks, cultures, ages, abilities.

AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 16:16

[quote kurentovanje]@AcornAutumn yes, very true - though those who do not look for it may not do so because they don't think it exists, because it's not perceived as the norm in their social circle - so it's a bit of a self-perpetuating cycle. People begin to think things like that don't happen, so they don't get involved, and then they die out?

To the posters who have mentioned economic and gender implications for why these things are less common, you're absolutely right. Though I do think that our lifestyles are also to blame - we have a lot of easy but unfulfilling entertainment and social contact on tap through the internet, and are less active in general, so perhaps getting up and going out to organise things is just less appealing and deemed unnecessary.[/quote]
I'm low media and low consumption

I do think that people don't look for it when they are busy with other things, but then moan it doesn't exist

i'm in Zone 5. Pre 2020, within walking distance, there were literary events, everything from sci fi to biography. There's often free music at a local church. Loads of kid stuff - I don't have kids but the neighbours go.

Within a short bus ride, in Zone 3, art galleries with open days, free music events going on over several days covering jazz, rock, classical.

I suspect lockdown will kill them and I am sad about that. But I'm very puzzled by the idea they're not there. Mum and sister live in different areas, loads of local stuff going on.

If you mean a big catered May Day event that looks like a funfair, I've never looked for that kind of thing.

MissyB1 · 02/04/2021 16:18

@QuiteContraryMarie

I agree OP. I’m not from the UK but I do feel like sometimes the UK tries so hard to be all things to all people that it ls having an identity crisis. I felt that this was evident at Pimlico Academy this week where the head caved to students demands to remove the Union Jack. I mean, if you can’t be proud of your country and the flag and all it stands for, then who are you? What are you? The country is divided and segregation is becoming more apparent. The cancel culture means people are scared of healthy open debate. I look back to 2012, the olympics year and wow, was it only 9 years ago? I miss the UK of 2012.
I agree with the point about an “identity crisis” possibly the reason for Brexit??? Perhaps the UK don’t feel secure about who they are or what they stand for anymore? To me that’s nothing to do with immigration or multiculturalism though, it’s probably more to do with selfishness, laziness, and the me me me consumerist society.

We need to get back to a more caring and inclusive culture. And we need to demand that our Government lead by example! A better sense of community and responsibility towards each other would be very positive for mental health I’m sure.

clareykb · 02/04/2021 16:21

Catholic Clubs and Social Clubs still pretty active in the North East ...in fact so popular they were the centre of several covid outbreaks!

RainingBatsAndFrogs · 02/04/2021 16:22

YANBU that communal celebration is a good thing. And I really regret the loss of daily communal singing in school assemblies, for example.

However, this is very, very far from my experience;

The idea of bringing up kids in the individualistic slog that is the UK rat race, with unbelievable childcare costs, fragmented communities, the negative economic impact of maternity leave on women, etc. is just not something we can sign up for. Even after kids are born it takes a lot of organisation to get them into activity groups, when in the past they’d naturally go out and play with neighbours’ kids for hours at a time (dangerous, I know

I brought my kids up in S London. The sense of community is incredibly strong. It is an area which is very mixed across every demographic index. Not posh.

We have a street party, close the road regularly for ‘play street’, a community garden and a book swap library.

A road WhatsApp group through which incredible help and support is offered. As soon as COVID struck there was a support network for the more vulnerable and shielding, which is still in place.

A book club, which is inter generational.

The school catchments are very small so all friends are local, kids know their friends in the road, and form lifelong bonds.

The UK is also great for specific local traditions be it well dressing or a scarecrow week, local regattas, and things like Sheringham 40s week where all the shopkeepers dress and do their shops as if in the war, Spitfires fly over.

Yarn bombing.

Get out there, take part or make it happen!

You sound negative and pessimistic!

oneglassandpuzzled · 02/04/2021 16:28

I'm finding a lot of this community cohesion by volunteering at a vaccination centre in our local town and I think it's why I enjoy it so much. I feel a part of something bigger than myself and my own narrow concerns one day a week.

BrightlightsSmallvillage · 02/04/2021 16:31

I live in the US, so wanted to comment purely to add another perspective. In my town (affluent which has a massive bearing on our experience) we have a very well funded and active park district. (I.e. parks and recreation). They do a great job of putting on community events like an easter egg hunt, leprechaun hunt, Christmas tree lighting, mud run, camp out, July 4th parade etc. Barely a month goes by without something, mainly aimed at younger families but this is the very period in people's lives they want to make local connections, which grow into friendships and community. Obviously this all has a cost, we pay for the many activities/classes individually but also through a hefty local tax but it does provide many jobs and no need for volunteer organisers. This isn't meant to be a political post, and I'm acutely aware of the social inequalities that privatizing culture in this way does nothing to address. That said, as someone who moved to a community with no local connections, this system has been a lifesaver for my family.

amiahoarder · 02/04/2021 16:37

I agree OP and wonder how different it would have been for Mums at home 40-50 years ago, more were stay at home mums and had more time to socialise and organise community events. More children playing out. I felt quite lonely as a stay at home mum for 6 years as I would make friends then they would go back to work after maternity leave. In the summer hols( before covid) it's sad to see how few children at the park as they are all at holiday clubs due to parents working. I'm not saying it's a bad thing that more women work now but it has affected community life.

serin · 02/04/2021 16:39

I don't recognise your description of uk life at allBlush.
Our village has loads on; May queen festival, annual show, CofE and Catholic Church fetes, 2 school events, bonfire night, carol concert, brass band festival, remembrance parade. Beer festival, Gin festival, scarecrow festival.
Then theres the town 4 miles away with a carnival, May queen, armed forces day and parade. River side festival, couple of biggish organised music festivals, sporting events that are big enough to involve the whole town and of course all the usual bonfire night, Christmas events etc.
People can be as involved (or not) as they choose.

amiahoarder · 02/04/2021 16:39

Having said that we have been chatting with the neighbours most of the afternoon, children and adults and it's lovely.

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