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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the UK could do with more communal rituals?

89 replies

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 14:27

This may sound strange and will be long, so please bear with me.

I’ve been a long-time reader of these boards and this is my first thread. Reading about your struggles and joys on here has made me empathise more than I thought I could. I think we’re living in a crisis at the moment, exacerbated by but not caused by covid: of mental health, of loneliness, of purpose. People live to work and so many are falling into poverty and using food banks. Community services have been stripped back leading to crime and poorer childhood outcomes. You only have to read the myriad of threads on here describing how men treat women horrifically, whether in a family or relationship or just in the wider world, to recognise the ongoing sexism women face. Systemic racism remains a huge issue in the UK, which leads to poorer economic and life outcomes for particular groups, and is fomented by sections of politics and the media who would rather have those of lower economic means divided on racial lines than fight for their own rights.

Even in groups who don’t suffer as much from inequality, such as the white middle class (a group I belong to), many primarily find purpose and happiness through consumerism, in their next holiday, car, home improvements, buying stuff for their kids, ensuring their kids’ economic success, etc. It’s not to say they don’t get happiness from relationships, but studies show people are lonelier nowadays and have smaller networks. That quick hit of pleasure we get from buying something can often fill a void, can create a perceived sense of ‘social status’ and self-satisfaction, that in the past was perhaps filled with meaningful relationships and interactions outside of the home. I feel like the last couple of years of my life have felt like that, at least.

Because it’s Easter and lockdown it’s got me thinking of why we have these four days off, so I watched a documentary this morning about how Easter is celebrated in other European countries. I was struck by how huge Easter celebrations are, from villages in Slovenia to cities like Seville. Large communities come together and care about taking part and putting great effort into preparing for public processions, theatre events, dance performances, group crafts, etc. And not all of these festivals are religious - some simply mark the start of Spring, of new life, and have been celebrated similarly for millennia. Religious or not, these festivals encourage people to celebrate together and to think about some of the bigger questions: life, death, what sustains us, why we’re here, etc.

It got me thinking that the main rituals we retain in the UK are individualistic ones: baby showers/‘gender reveals’/baptisms, weddings, birthday parties and funerals. Communities don’t tend to get together other than when an individual or a couple decides to celebrate themselves. On this point, my husband and I eloped because we were horrified by the prospect of having to invite lots of people who had never met, and who we rarely see, to celebrate our wedding together (that included our parents, who don’t get on). Had we lived in a community where people already knew each other, we may have made a different decision. We’ve been married for several years now and we’ve also decided not to have children. Once again, our decision would’ve been different had we lived in another situation or country. The idea of bringing up kids in the individualistic slog that is the UK rat race, with unbelievable childcare costs, fragmented communities, the negative economic impact of maternity leave on women, etc. is just not something we can sign up for. Even after kids are born it takes a lot of organisation to get them into activity groups, when in the past they’d naturally go out and play with neighbours’ kids for hours at a time (dangerous, I know, but the benefits of this kind of early independence are surely huge, and the bonding is not so enforced or controlled).

Does anyone else ever think about this kind of thing? How can we get community cohesion back and a bit more meaning into our lives that doesn’t just involve buying stuff? Volunteering is one thing that I’ve done and is so important, but at the same time it’d be good to have some rituals back that unite us to others in our community through celebration rather than just charity. I wonder if it’s all lost forever. All this could be because I grew up in a large town and currently live in a small city, so if you do live in or are part of a smaller community and have (probably pre-covid!) experience of regular, ongoing festivals or rituals where most of the community participate, I’d love to hear about it.

OP posts:
MargosKaftan · 02/04/2021 16:44

Many churches in the UK (in normal times!) do still have the celebrations and community events, but these things happen indoors, as you can't plan on it not pissing down in the UK.

Bonfire night has become a more community event as people have moved away from backgarden celebrating to larger organised ones for safety reasons.

School, scout and church fairs still happen round here.

Susie477 · 02/04/2021 16:49

It would be nice to live somewhere where there was an expectation that everyone just took part and put effort in.

No, thanks.

If that’s what you want to do with your free time, crack on, but I have better things to do with my own precious free time than being coerced into participating in somebody else’s idea of organised community fun.

EssentialHummus · 02/04/2021 17:01

I live somewhere like this (in an unremarkable bit of London that is very strong on community stuff). I love it - there's always something to get involved in if you want, local older people have an active activity calendar, there are annual events to look forward to etc etc. It really suits me. The other side of that is the fallings-out, the big personalities who dominate things, minor and sometimes not so minor scandals... broadly though, I think it's wonderful. I think it's interesting how much of this stuff still centres around the church even if just as a physical space - I'm not Christian but I'm in and out of there all the time for events, and I think having a very progressive, outward-looking vicar has made a huge difference.

DazzlePaintedBattlePants · 02/04/2021 17:14

I think there’s just so much more to do these days, often from the comfort of your own home. If your evening entertainment was taking your pick from four channels of telly, then actually an evening a fortnight helping on the fete/cheese rolling/cricket club committee was a decent alternative; nowadays you can binge on Netflix, play on your Xbox, piss about on the Internet, spend 2 hours cooking an elaborate tea, all without leaving your home.

Paid leisure options are also good (pre COVID and if you had the money to spend) cinema, bowling, ice rink, trampoline park etc, if you’ve got time after sorting out kid activities. And let’s face it some fetes and fairs and community events were a bit crap too! People expect better these days - my Dad used to organise a running series with a bunch of stamps, brown envelopes and borrowing someone’s caravan as race control, with post race refreshments being powdered soup and cheap squash in a smelly marquee. All organisation happened in his own free time. People now wouldn’t put up with a whiffy marquee and the belt and braces approach - they want professionally organised races they can just hand over their registration fee and follow the markers on the ground!

YY to a PP who said that many of these events are built on the backs of free female labour. I work pretty much full time, am a school Governor and have my own hobbies. I have no time or inclination to add organising (or even helping out at) a community event.

MrsSnitchnose · 02/04/2021 17:17

It would be nice to live somewhere where there was an expectation that everyone just took part and put effort in

God no, sounds like my idea of Hell. I hate organised 'fun'. I spend 5 days a week having to 'people' all day at work and I'd rather not be pressured into doing that in my down time too.

TheJerkStore · 02/04/2021 17:17

I live in a place where we have lots of community events which are linked to specific occasions or dates. We've really missed them this last year and can't wait to be able to do them again.

TheSockMonster · 02/04/2021 17:18

I totally agree OP!

I live on the outskirts of a village that has made a conscious effort to introduce things like this with a good amount of success. Prior to covid we had 3 years in a row of a very successful summer fete with dancing around the maypole, just-for-fun dog show and silly races, plus the usual plant stalls, ice cream, beer tent etc. We have a long-running whole-village Halloween/Festival of Light effort with hot food stalls, activities at 3 different locations, best dressed street etc. The annual switching on of Christmas lights with carols and mulled wine/apple juice. There are also lots of smaller annual events, many connected with the primary school (but open to the public) plus informal traditions like the big meet up with sledges, blankets, chairs and hot chocolate at the only hill in the village at the first sign of snow (lots of older residents turn up just to watch the children). We have Facebook groups dedicated to spotting the mobile fish and chip shop van and ice cream van.

When covid hit the village & surrounds pulled together amazingly, in part I’m sure because we are all so used to working together.

Yes, there is a definite busy body element (lots of very over-enthusiastic Stay The Fuck At Homers spring to mind) which you have to be comfortable with and I am grateful to be outside the village where I can dip in and dip out of village life, but I’ve been here 11 years now and would never live anywhere else!

TheNinny · 02/04/2021 17:34

I agree with you. Even the traditions i did as a child like the nativity, school fetes, bonfire night etc are not done anymore on a large scale. Mainly due to group gathering regulations and being politcially correct. And those that remain like Christmas, halloween, really any 'national' celebration are so commercialised and focused on retail/stuff, rather than actual celebration. Communities here are very different now though. I live in a very rural village but dont feel part of it all as I work full time and commute 40 mins away. Only know my immediate neighbours by name. These things would be a good way to meet people but alas, prob will never happen

NewVariable · 02/04/2021 17:46

but if we had more of a mentality of community responsibility we might change our mentalities to view childcare as a social necessity, and thus be encouraged to fund it more centrally
I don't think we can 'go back' to how it was, as in practice it wasn't generally good. Just look at how many threads there are on disagreements about childcare and parenting between parents and grandparents - and these are within a small number of family members. Once we involve more people - you get where it's going.
At the same time I agree it would be better for all some communal activities were shared. That's what we've done with education, medical etc.
If people start spending more time locally (wfh) and have more spare time, then in some places these communities would emerge. But not everywhere. For those who cannot be friends with their neighbours, we now have digital communities

FloconDeNeige · 02/04/2021 17:53

OP, I’ve lived in 5 different countries as an adult (UK, France, Philippines, Malaysia and Switzerland, where I currently am). I can tell you that I find both France and Switzerland to have fewer ‘cultural rituals’ than the UK and just as much consumerism. DH is French and he much prefers to celebrate Christmas in the UK than France, as we ‘do more’ to mark it.

There’s a tendency to think the grass is greener but in most cases it isn’t, by and large.

The Philippines & Malaysia were more community-oriented but this was heavily driven by religion.

AcornAutumn · 02/04/2021 18:17

@Susie477

It would be nice to live somewhere where there was an expectation that everyone just took part and put effort in.

No, thanks.

If that’s what you want to do with your free time, crack on, but I have better things to do with my own precious free time than being coerced into participating in somebody else’s idea of organised community fun.

Agree with Susie

I have helped at a couple of events. Others I just enjoy.

No one should feel obliged, that would make a terrible atmosphere. Why would anyone want that?

I'm still really curious to know who actually looked for things like this but that question has been markedly ignored.

mustlovegin · 02/04/2021 18:40

studies show people are lonelier nowadays and have smaller networks

I can see where you are coming from OP.

But for me, the solution is not so much in the community, but to start to focus on one's immediate family and closer network first. To strengthen and care for those relationships. It doesn't matter if you don't have children, but try to reach out to siblings, cousins, parents, good and loyal long-term friends, etc.

Meowchickameowmeow · 02/04/2021 18:45

@Susie477

It would be nice to live somewhere where there was an expectation that everyone just took part and put effort in.

No, thanks.

If that’s what you want to do with your free time, crack on, but I have better things to do with my own precious free time than being coerced into participating in somebody else’s idea of organised community fun.

I agree, there isn't much worse than organised fun and having to pretend you're having a jolly good time.
DaisyWaldron · 02/04/2021 18:49

I think the celebrations happen less because communities become more fractured, rather than the other way around. I really noticed it when I moved to England, in particular around weddings and funerals and Halloween. They all seemed to be much more private rather than community events, and people see children trick or treating as begging from strangers rather than as an act of sharing with others from the local community. I noticed similar things when I had had children, and that there is a huge culture of individualism around parenting, too, where parents are expected to keep their children out if the way unless expressly asked.

There is still a lot of community stuff, but (in my city community, at any rate) it's very much linked to opt-in communities. So churches and schools and volunteer organisations and even some businesses like pubs will often have a strong sense of togetherness and a pattern to year which will include festivities. But you have join the community to find out about it.

randomer · 02/04/2021 18:55

Alcohol and Shopping are the new Gods.
I tried to get a community tidy up and planting session going to give a nice space for families.Everybody preferred to stay at home with their machines.

Crankley · 02/04/2021 18:59

Not for me thanks, I have zero interest in communal rituals, whatever they may be but you crack on.

It's bad enough with the end of lockdown, having people who assume they are my friends, insisting on visiting to 'keep me company'. Ugh.

I have no plans to 'reach out' to my sister. We have nothing in common and speak once a year. Reaching out to my best friend of 58 years would make me very happy except she is now in a home, suffering from dementia and doesn't know who I am.

TheSandman · 02/04/2021 19:11

This has nothing to do with communal rituals. And I think those rituals disapeared because people fled them as soon as they could. For a good reason - they were not voluntary.

This. Enforced jollity is horrible and compulsory involvement of ritual causes more fights and divisions than it is worth. Look at the recent doorstep clapping for the NHS nonsense. The abuse people got for not taking part. One step away from the Two Minutes Hate.

Community involvement and working together to achieve positive, concrete aims? I'm all for that. I spent half the day cleaning road signs around our village the other week as part of one of our village clean ups. But street parties? - meh!

The only community ritual I can really get behind, and I sorely missed last year, are Pride marches.

kurentovanje · 02/04/2021 19:17

Thanks all for your responses, I've lost track of the thread a bit. Some good points have been made and some previous posters have opened my eyes to things that were going on in UK communities pre-Covid, which is good to hear. I guess when I used the word ritual I didn’t really mean community groups, but rather the kinds of calendar celebrations that bring people together just to appreciate our existence, the changing seasons and have fun, like Mayday, a Harvest festival, summer fete or Bonfire night. Celebrations that put the focus on being together and not the individual, and with people who attend contributing something to it. These kinds of celebrations probably do come about from having regular community groups for other activities, though.

So much of it depends on where you live, your background, and what you consider ‘normal,’ as I can see. I grew up in and still live in an urban area and have parents who worked and didn’t have the time to take active roles in community groups or my schools, so I rarely took part too. Covid has made me re-assess all of this, so I’m going to go looking for groups to join and events to organise once it’s over beyond my usual volunteering.

Religion has come up a lot too, and though the belief side is not for me maybe I do just need to be more open to going to church events for the social side of things. I don’t know if this is hypocritical thing to do, but by the sounds of it many people are already doing this.

And on the point of ‘enforced fun’ - I absolutely don’t agree with compelling people to take part in anything, if anything going to a community event was really not my idea of a good time in February 2020! But I think the pandemic has given me a different perspective. If we can’t travel as much and are stuck at home a lot, our immediate community is so much more important, and I guess I regret not forging those bonds before all the social distancing stuff kicked in.

OP posts:
Babdoc · 02/04/2021 19:32

I live in a village in Scotland. We have a very active church, and all the Christian festivals are well attended. The Sunday school put on a Nativity every year, we hold an Easter service on a hilltop at dawn, before the service in church where we roll our Easter eggs down the aisle. The harvest festival generates a large amount of food for donation to local homeless shelters. Practically the whole village comes along to the Midnight service on Christmas Eve.
The Remembrance service is preceded by a piper at the war memorial, where the villagers gather as the minister reads out the names of the fallen.
Pre covid there was a village fete every year, and no doubt will be again.
During the pandemic, everyone has drawn even closer, with volunteers organising food and prescription deliveries etc.
Community spirit and cohesion is still strong here, and I’m sure still is in many towns and villages across the UK.

Itsalonghaul · 02/04/2021 19:34

I agree whole heartedly. It is a huge hole missing in our lives.

Itsalonghaul · 02/04/2021 19:35

I think covid may change it - I am hopeful, because we live so separately now.

MiddlesexGirl · 02/04/2021 19:40

Our area also has lots of summer fairs, firework displays, Christmas events. Many of them are organised by village residents associations. Some are via churches and schools.
Also plenty of sports and community associations.

I agree there are fewer 'wide community' events where it seems like the whole village or town is there, such as seem popular in Italy for example. And certainly there were fewer events of this type when I lived in a city. But if you look around they are there.

hennybeans · 02/04/2021 19:48

I live in a small village that used to have an amazing scarecrow festival every year with activities for everyone. It was cancelled a few years ago because the insurance was too high.

There are no clubs, groups, etc now. The only community thing left is the pub, but I'm not a drinker.

When DC were small we tried to be regular church- goers, mainly for the community. But it was sparsely attended by people 70+, nobody our age, no DC. We didn't really get anything it of it.

I also joined the WI at the nearest town and was on the committee, but what a thankless job. So much bureaucracy and hours and hours spent raising tiny sums of money. I've since left.

TomPinch · 02/04/2021 19:57

I grew up in suburban London in the 70s and 80s. I remember heaps of the local activities (and the were lots) being organised around the local CofE church. They involved lots of people all doing a little bit. Of course that meant there was a religious element, but it wasn't in any sense oppressive, or agenda pushing compared to the environment now. Same church is now a small collection of people in their 60s - 90s and the community stuff had simply stopped way before covid, or if it happens, it's because one or two people do something herculean before burning out.

I miss it: it was really good.

I live elsewhere now, but I suspect the same has happened here.

The reality is that in the UK community solidarity got junked with organised religion, particularly the CofE and much as people would like to deny it, if it's been replaced at all it's with less inclusive, more fragmented, individualistic activities.

BackforGood · 02/04/2021 20:01

I don't recognise your description of life in the UK, from your OP at all.

You said
I think I would prefer to live somewhere more rural with local traditions, fetes taking place on the bank holiday, etc., but it's not possible at the moment because of work. Bringing back traditions, festivals and rituals for more urban communities is so important.

yet, I live in a big City and all these things happen - not just on a Bank Holiday, but week after week across the City.

(Pre-Covid, obviously)

If you want to, you can go to events like this week in , and week out, sometimes more than one a day.
Community is alive and kicking if you want to look for it.
With the advent of Social Media, it is even easier to find events if you want to join in.