To feel extremely depressed about how Brexit is limiting the lives we once knew.

[Persiantrio]

Presumably now, if you want to go shopping in Paris on the Eurostar, you will have to declare, queue and pay customs on any clothes / goods over a given amount at the border. How crap and inconvenient is that?

Same with any holiday purchases from anywhere in the EU? Not worth it.

Also if you order anything online that happens to come from the EU and costs over over £135, you get hit with massive customs charges of about 40%. Companies like Etsy etc are taking a massive hit as a result.

How is this “taking back control?” Its so depressing and backward. The only reason nobody is kicking off about this yet is because nobody could go anywhere anyway. People don’t realise the freedoms they had and that are now gone. What a shit and insular place to live this will be.

And I don’t wait to hear any predictable ‘vaccine nationalism’ waffle either (because that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I’m asking in this instance and we could have done exactly the same within the EU anyway).

@Wearywithteens

‘Limiting the lives we once knew’?

Shopping in Paris? Is this a joke?

Not for anyone who likes to travel beyond Aldi.

@Peregrina

The link between EU immigration and the vote to leave is not as clear cut as some posters like believe.

I was specifically answering the poster who said this:

This has a disproportionately negative effect on poorer communities who have seen increased competition for jobs, wages undercut, increased competition for school places, increased difficulty accessing healthcare, overcrowded public transport, skyrocketing house prices... the list goes on an on and on.

It may be true for Boston, parts of Norfolk and Cambs, but it most certainly isn't the case for just about all the other Leave voting areas. As for house prices, they are rocketing in London and the South East, but London voted Remain.

Things like lack of public transport are almost certainly due to the fit of 'deregulation' a.k.a privatisation which happened a couple of decades ago. I can give an example of the sort of thing which happened: Sheffield, Barnsley and Leeds used to share a service serving the three cities and co-operated so that buses were spaced out with the Sheffield transport putting one bus on, followed by Barnsley 20 minutes later and Leeds 20 minutes after that, so that no one rocking up to the town centre bus station had to wait more than 20 minutes for the service. Once privatised - they all tried to put on the service on the hour - so three buses almost at once, and then a wait for another hour. I have no idea how it shook out because I left the area. Greater Manchester is taking back its bus services, I believe. The point of all this - lack of public transport was due to a political ideology and had nothing to do with either the EU or immigration. This was the "privatise and compete at all costs" mentality.

Many people would say that you simply cannot separate the EU from globalism. As much as the internationalist element might be appealing, it's a trade organisation and a neoliberal one. Globalism has been bad for many people.

There was quite an interesting map put out a while back that looked at areas of decreased social capital and Brexit voting patters. They matched pretty clearly.

Never mind trips to London from GB, try running a haulage business or a garden centre in N.ireland then you'd discover how difficult Brexit has made things. My husband's a keen gardener and several companies have stopped delivery to NI. We now have border down the Irish sea. I've been so angry about those people in GB who voted Brexit without any thought for all of the UK. Even more angry with the people in NI who voted leave. The majority voted remain but it's had more impact on NI than anywhere else.

How would they check, I'm not sure but you are assuming people enter Europe and travel through when many people flly directly to the destination. So on arrival border control can say no.

At the moment there is increased presence at borders due to the need for PCR going from country to country due to covid, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that increased checks will be in place at some point in the future.

The official ETIAS website is clear that this is a potential issue. I'm not making it up.

Look at the title of the post and stop focussing on "shopping in Paris". There are extra customs duties and taxes on all goods over a certain level in or out of the EU. This affects everyone unless of course you only ever buy local. Even if you're not sending goods over that level there's still the form filling to consider. It has changed things, that's an indisputable fact.

Depressed really! You mean a bit down not the same thing isit.

There was quite an interesting map put out a while back that looked at areas of decreased social capital and Brexit voting patters. They matched pretty clearly.

But decreased social capital was happening long before this. I saw an article recently which matched areas which had been heavily bombed and were slow to rebuild which have still never fully recovered. The end result is that young people and anyone with a bit of get up and go find the places stultifying, leave and don't normally return.The East End of London is something of an exception and has changed and recovered as a result of the Big Bang of the City and the relocations to Canary Wharf.

It's never cut and dried, it's a multiplicity of factors. Whether the pandemic with a move to home working, plus high housing prices in London will reverse this trend is something which we will need to wait and see on.

Prior to going into the EEC the UK was the sick man of Europe and speaking from my own experience of working in textile factories as a student in the late sixties and early seventies, I could see why - antiquated machinery and poor management were two key factors. So the work went off to the Far East. The alternative would have been re-investment and retraining to go for high quality garment making, which could command a premium.

This affects everyone unless of course you only ever buy local.
Even if you only buy local, where does the shop get its supplies from?

Pre schengen (yes, a while ago!) didn’t stop us from going to Paris for a weekend, or from travelling around Europe, it just meant we had to queue at borders, and in those days change money in every country. There was a limit on duty free but that was normal. As we still had to queue up to get back into UK I can’t see it making a lot of difference this year to last year, or rather the year before covid happened.

@Daphnise

Try not to be so ridiculous- who's going shopping on Eurostar to Covid-ridden France or Europe.

There have been no effects of Brexit on ordinary people.

None of my online orders have attracted any tax or delays.

What world are you living in?

So sorry if your caviar costs a few pence more!

Every product from the EU is subject to custom entry duties and taxes. Every single product from 1st July regardless of value. 1 in 5 companies have already closed their doors. No effect? Maybe not on you...yet.

Many people would say that you simply cannot separate the EU from globalism. As much as the internationalist element might be appealing, it's a trade organisation and a neoliberal one. Globalism has been bad for many people.

There was quite an interesting map put out a while back that looked at areas of decreased social capital and Brexit voting patters. They matched pretty clearly.

I agree with this.

The social capital thing is interesting. There have been deep divisions in the UK for many years. There are whole communities where people have little access to many of the cultural benefits discussed on this thread. Successive government policies have deepened those divisions, most recently through austerity but they go back to the decimation of the northern industrial economy in the 80s. It wasn't really that surprising that the remain campaign failed to convince those with little social and economic capital, when their argument centred on telling us that the status quo had to be sustained.

Prior to going into the EEC the UK was the sick man of Europe

It actually still is...😳 Or rather again apparently.
www.google.com/search?q=sick+man+of+Europe&client=ms-unknown&ei=m8ZmYK55kv7v9Q_Ol6m4AQ&oq=sick+man+of+Europe&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAMyBAgAEEMyAgguMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAOgQIABBHOgQIABANOgcILhANEJMCUL6zDFjfyQxgj9AMaAFwAXgAgAFriAG0BJIBAzQuMpgBAKABAcgBAsABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

@Peregrina

Anyway, support the UK. That will make life better.

I would love to see you do that with the clothes you wear. Pull any six items out of your wardrobe or chest of drawers and I guarantee that at least one will have been made in the Far East.

I have just tried the experiment with the first six items pulled out of a drawer: three made in Bangladesh, two made in Cambodia and one item from India.

None from the EU then.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

Many people would say that you simply cannot separate the EU from globalism. As much as the internationalist element might be appealing, it's a trade organisation and a neoliberal one. Globalism has been bad for many people.

There was quite an interesting map put out a while back that looked at areas of decreased social capital and Brexit voting patters. They matched pretty clearly.

I agree with this.

The social capital thing is interesting. There have been deep divisions in the UK for many years. There are whole communities where people have little access to many of the cultural benefits discussed on this thread. Successive government policies have deepened those divisions, most recently through austerity but they go back to the decimation of the northern industrial economy in the 80s. It wasn't really that surprising that the remain campaign failed to convince those with little social and economic capital, when their argument centred on telling us that the status quo had to be sustained.

Yes that's a very good point, and one a lot of MN I don't think have considered.

@LemonRoses

No Bosnia, Slovenia, Czechia, Belgium have higher rates per capita. We could feel a bit smug until you look at comparative wealth of those countries. U.K. comes in just behind Germany as second wealthiest nation in Europe. Bosnia is 35th, Slovenia 30th, Hungary 23rd. Our GDP is about 12 times that of Bosnia. Given Covid is a disease impacted by poverty, you’d think we’d have the very lowest death rate but our mismanagement caused thousands of unnecessary deaths.

Out of curiosity do other countries use the same metric for counting covid deaths i,e. "within 28 days of a positive test" meaning covid deaths include people who've died of other reasons? Did everyone who died in other countries even have a covid test?

I agree too. A high percentage of people voting for Brexit did so solely based on lowering immigration and that is probably the thing that it least affects. Totally backward imo.

@Persiantrio

I feel like we’ve moved into some pointless bureaucratic enclave. Covid has distracted people so far, but once people can travel again the full reality of what we’ve lost will hit, I think.

@Persiantrio definitely. Already stories are coming through of other countries being pig headed and jobsworthy just because they can with people entering the country. We are definitely an outcast to most European countries now. The whole AstraZeneca bollocks is testament to that.

What a London centric view of the world you have OP.

I’m carrying on my own protest at Brexit by keeping my GB with EU stars car magnet on the car. Pointless I know but if anyone comments about it they’ll get an earful.

Out of curiosity do other countries use the same metric for counting covid deaths i,e. "within 28 days of a positive test" meaning covid deaths include people who've died of other reasons?

Our COVID deaths are understated if anything. They may include some who died of other causes, but they exclude far more people who died of COVID but managed to survive in ICU for more than 28 days beyond their positive test.

@Persiantrio

But what was the point? Why vote to make lives more expensive and inconvenient?

I think all the rabid brexiteers thought about was immigration. I hear new things that have been affected every day on the radio. I'm aware of people on the Costas who have lived there for years and voted Brexit and are now surprised they can't stay as many days as they like every year.

None from the EU then.

The point was, none from the UK, whereas 50 years ago they might have been. You could also take DH's ties, of which he has ones purchased 50 or more years ago as well as more recently - older ones: UK made. New ones - it's still possible to get qood quality silk ones from Italy - otherwise, they are from the Far East again or Turkey.

Out of curiosity do other countries use the same metric for counting covid deaths i,e. "within 28 days of a positive test" meaning covid deaths include people who've died of other reasons? Did everyone who died in other countries even have a covid test?

You’re right of course. The U.K. testing system was a dismal failure. The likely count in the U.K. is higher than reported, particularly during first wave when many care home deaths were not recorded as Coronavirus related. The U.K. guidance was for certification of cause to be based on view of certifying health care professionals. Many in care homes in U.K. were not reported as virus related because of co-morbidities. That’s not just old people but people with learning disabilities too.

There will inevitably be some variation in reporting locally across the world, but the metrics are the same and based not only on direct reports but also modelling of known spread patterns. The most inaccurate ones are likely to be those with less well developed testing regimes......including those who spent over 27 Billion for a failed system.

The attribution of deaths to specific causes can be challenging under any circumstances. Health problems are often connected, and multiplicative, meaning an underlying condition can often lead to complications which ultimately result in death.

This is also true in the case of COVID-19: the disease can lead to other health problems such as pneumonia and acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).

I agree too. A high percentage of people voting for Brexit did so solely based on lowering immigration and that is probably the thing that it least affects. Totally backward imo.

Stop making sweeping statements deriding half the voting population. If you can work out immigration comes from places outside the EU, other people will have too.