Please help, school exclusion.

[Blossomplease6]

I’m aware this is the wrong board but I need advice quickly and the sen boards are slow and quieter.
My son, 8, is I think on the verge of being expelled from school. I’m so scared, he would be devastated. I’m terrified of him having to go to a bee school who don’t understand him and he would be heartbroken and scared.
He has no diagnosis, we’re waiting for camhs at the moment. He’s having meltdowns at school, which can be quite violent and are aimed at teachers. Never students. We can’t work out why, there are triggers but normally small things that shouldn’t cause such a breakdown.
Where do I stand legally? I have a meeting coming up and I just think they’re going to say they can’t cope with him anymore. He wasn’t like this before. There’s always been issues, and meltdowns at school but he was never violent until his first stint in keyworker school last year. That then stopped when he returned to normal school in September. But has restarted again after Xmas and the latest lockdown.

I work as a 1:1 in a primary school, as well as having my own DC with ASD.

I'm really surprised that your son's school don't have a behaviour plan for him. It makes things so much easier for everyone as it means staff aren't confusing the child by using different strategies.

It sounds as though SLT also need to use a different approach when they come in to intervene. It would be unusual in our school, for example, for staff to attempt to physically remove a child. Once the rest of the class are safely out of the way (especially if chairs and tables are being thrown around), SLT take a very calm approach to help de-fuse the situation.

It sounds as though he would benefit from his own safe space, and possibly even scheduled movement breaks during the day to help prevent the pressure from building. Some of our children have a small pop-up tent or an enclosed space in the corner of the room where they can go if things are starting to get too much for them. As pp have already suggested, visual timetables and timers may also help with the transition difficulties.

To be honest, if the school have already reached the point of excluding him before, they should already have been putting these measures into place for him.

School should have completed a risk assessment of he is that aggressive.

Apply for echp now. They have admitted they cant meet his needs. You may have to come to terms that this isnt the school for him if he cant be properly supported.

Have they got an EP involved yet?

There's so many things they must do before they can even consider permanent exclusion.

Ds had an ehcp from year 2 but only got his diagnosis just over 12 months after that. He has had 1-1 since year 4 but it took a lot of fighting from me and school to get that written into his plan because the local authority don’t like to specify things like that (because of it’s written clearly then they need to ensure it’s provided)

In year 3 Ds was very much as you describe your DS and we were all looking at the possibility of moving to a specialist school but with a lot of team work and trial and error in our case we did find the ways to make it not only work but help him thrive. He is moving to mainstream secondary in September - now obviously that may not work but hopefully it does and the fact it’s even something we can attempt shows that the right support/setting can make a massive difference

So the paediatrician originally suggested school apply for an ehcp maybe 2 years ago when we first was in the system for asd assessment.
I’ve also got an email from the senco from last September, that he wrote to the paediatrician asking for another asd assessment as he wanted to start the process of applying for an ehcp and it would help to clarify what support is needed.

The paediatrician saw us again and referred for an adhd assessment and after that possibly another asd assessment.

When I’ve asked the senco since about this ehcp that he said he was going to apply for he said it’s best to wait. When I mentioned the the paed had suggested it quite a while back he said they often suggest things without taking into account how difficult it is to get and it’s best to wait for assessment. But now I’ve found this email of him saying himself he wanted to start that process back in September. I’d forgotten that he said that.

Well, I’m going to do it myself now anyway.

The paediatrician has also asked for him to be seen by the Ed psyc more than once. This was originally requested in year 1, I signed the paperwork to agree, but it has never happened. He’s in year 3 now.

I think there must be a risk assessment. Not because of violence but because he has attempted to leave school in the past. I’ve never seen it though.

The best way to get an Ed psych assessment will be through the ehcp process.

Schools only get a limited budget/number of Ed psych hours per year which don’t cover a fraction of the students who actually need to be seen so like so many resources they have to be spread too thinly. However part of the process for an ehcp includes assessment by a Ed psych

In some LAs school no longer get any EP assessments outside of the EHCP process.

If a child needs support and needs a 1:1 then unless the child has an EHCP and Higher Needs Funding in place, then the school would have to pay for extra support from its own budget.
Schools payroll pays for staff, not 1:1s , this requires additional funding which often explains why SLT intervene if a child has a meltdown.

@Mumofsend

In some LAs school no longer get any EP assessments outside of the EHCP process.

I should be shocked by that but sadly I’m not.

My LA restructured and each school has an Inclusion Partner who provide behaviour/SEN support advice remotely. The Inclusion Partners report directly to EPs.
But they don't come in an observe the child which seems a bit flawed.

My LA are also apparently refusing EHCNA as all children will be behind because of Covid. Even when presented with evidence of pre-Covid difficulties 🤦‍♀️

@Sirzy the only non-ehcp support you can get from EPs in our LA is a 12-5 one day a week call in service that is for schools and parents. There are 130 schools in our LA and very big schools at that.

My DD's school put her 1-1 in place prior to her EHCP because they had no choice but to do it, it meant a class lost their general TA.

She also now has an EHCP and has had two EP assessments as part of that and has not yet been seen in person by an EP.

I've worked as a 1-1 with the same boy for nearly 4 years now, and we're finally having to go down the exclusion route with him because that's the only way he'll get the help he needs. The system is not fit for purpose and many mainstream primaries are skint. My guess is the SENCO is a class teacher with additional duties as many schools cannot afford a dedicated one, so he's probably stretched. SLT will be giving him a chance to leave the room if he's being disruptive and if he doesn't then I don't blame them for moving him. Positive handling should be reasonable, proportional and necessary and given the choice, minimising the disruption to the rest of the class is preferable. I say this as someone who has been in schools where we cleared the room which just led to more problems in the long run.
So you appear to have a good relationship with the school, maybe just ask them if they want the exclusions as proof that he needs more help or do they think he'd be better in a school that is not so tied to the national curriculum and mainstream mentality.
Best of luck

This was us when ds was 7. Exclusions, all the behaviours you describe and 'small SEN class' and reduced timetable etc. The negative impacts of being different and shamed by having meltdowns shouldn't be ignored. This fuelled the feelings of heightened anxiety and low self esteem.

We had no diagnosis and no plan and were shamed by the school (not initially, they were lovely initially and for quite a long time) and frozen out gradually by the parents as it got worse little by little.

He was excluded 8 times in the end (it escalated as time went on) and we had to fight for all the assessments.

Now, he's 11. ASD confirmed with sensory processing disorder and mental health scars from the torture of mainstream school that we were desperate to keep him in because it seemed good. He's also gifted academically and no issues at all before 7yo. He now attends an autism school where he is understood, accepted and nurtured in a way that mainstream can never do and I feel sick every day that we persevered with sending him somewhere where he had meltdowns and hurt people because of the environment.

He has never done a single thing that would come close to an exclusion because his needs are now met.

A SEN child in mainstream needing exclusions is not having his needs met and will have a long term negative impact on them. Is his little SEN class a long term thing? Until secondary school? What would happen in a normal class full of kids?

I just wanted to say I know how you feel right now. My daughter was diagnosed with ASD at 8, she got an EHCP at 10 but was still permanently excluded in year 5. The class teachers were brilliant but the SLT just kept hounding her until she snapped. The EP said it was ‘fight or flight’ because her anxiety was through the roof. I have since learnt about PDA and my DD fits the profile for this. She is bright and popular. We thought she had ADHD as she didn’t seem autistic at all to us.

She should have gone to a pupil referral unit but it was full so she went to a social, emotional and mental health special school for a year. She was desperate to have a ‘normal’ secondary school experience so we got her into mainstream for year 7. Now in year 8 and very happy at school. Not one exclusion due to the excellent support. Her teachers do not challenge her if she exits the classroom. She is allowed to leave and cool down. Not one incident of violent behaviour since she started.

We hit rock bottom when she was excluded but on the plus side she is more resilient, and her needs are clearly identified and documented. It really can be OK if it doesn’t work out in their first primary school. If he does end of moving he will make new friends.

Ariana, that's crazy. The way SEN children are treated in this country is shocking.

OP this sounds very much like ASD with high anxiety & possibly PDA.
I would suggest pushing for further assessment although I know waiting times are very long. Would private assessment be an option? It sounds as though a specialist placement might suit him better but it's a long hard fight.

@ArianaDumbledore I honestly do not know the answers. It seems like not everything has been tried. I’ll ask these questions.

@FeckinCat Thanks. I do believe SLT are calm and only holding him when necessary but maybe aren’t doing all they can to ensure it doesn’t get to that stage. He probably could do with a calm space to use. He needs to get away sometimes

@titbumwillypoo he’s only had one exclusion and nobody has directly mentioned another but by saying they can’t meet his needs at the moment I’m worried that’s what they’re hinting at. I don’t blame them for moving him when they need to, I’ve always been supportive, I trust them. But I also think they could do more to help him and avoid it. 1:1 would help massively. He didn’t even have a TA in the class. Just one teacher.

@paininthearm I’m sorry you went through that. I guess this is a worry. Fight or flight being triggered often is really unhealthy. He does love his school though. It’s more than just a school, until things escalated recently they have been a massive support, his class teachers have been lovely. It’s a real community school. He only moved to the sen class last week and we haven’t discussed it yet. It’s a trial so no idea how long they intend on keeping him in there. It didn’t even exist before covid. He likes it though.

@HelplessProcrastinator how awful bit I’m really glad things have worked it. PRU terrifies me. I’d give up work and refuse to send him I think. He is in fight of flight mode too often lately and I just want to help but I can’t because I don’t know what’s causing it. I don’t think he quite fits pda and it’s never been suggested but he’s there are traits I suppose. Moving school would be devastating he loves it, so do I.

@Krook I can’t really afford private but I’d find the money if it’s help. I’ve briefly looked into it but it’s a minefield I don’t know where to begin, how long it’d take, how much it’d cost, what he’d need to be assessed for. He definitely has a lot of asd traits but doesn’t really struggle with communication. Not noticeably anyway. Anxiety definitely, and he’s possibly pda traits but I don’t feel he fits the profile.

Hi @Blossomplease6 I work for an LA in behaviour and exclusions. You can PM me if you want to.

@JanetandJohn500 Thank you I will

OP, my 8 year old is in a similar place post lockdown - really struggling suddenly with angry outbursts but at home. One possible cause is a mental health issue - anxiety. We're a few weeks further down the line than you and what has helped us is reading the Explosive Child. Your child can't meet the expectations placed on him, and so is exploding. There is always a run up/signs to the explosion. The reason he can't meet the expectations on him are as yet unknown, could be anxiety, ASD, ADHD but you won't understand that for a while. Have a look at Ross Green 'Lives in Balance', or Facebook group the B Team'. There is tonnes of support on there for parents in this position. It's very common for boys anxiety to explode out.
In the short term, work with school to understand the triggers of a meltdown - they never come out of nowhere.
Finally I'd really advocate you looking at this as a mental health issue / medical issue rather than behavioural in the first instance, given how quickly this has arisen post lockdown..all the best.

I should also add - the techniques I've mentioned above have worked for my son. Initially thru worked for me, I spotted the meltdown coming and dropped the expectation, avoiding the meltdown. However they're also working because his system is starting to almost cool down and he's getting to understand his feelings - telling me yesterday his tummy felt sick and fizzy (nerves) and today he took himself out of the garden for some quiet time telling me 'it was getting too much' - a few weeks ago he would have whacked out at his brother seemingly from nowhere!

I actually have that book. I got to the bit where I had to write lots down and just haven’t had time to go back to it but I keep meaning to as I’m sure it’ll be helpful. There’s definitely some anxiety going on with him.