Please help, school exclusion.

[Blossomplease6]

I’m aware this is the wrong board but I need advice quickly and the sen boards are slow and quieter.
My son, 8, is I think on the verge of being expelled from school. I’m so scared, he would be devastated. I’m terrified of him having to go to a bee school who don’t understand him and he would be heartbroken and scared.
He has no diagnosis, we’re waiting for camhs at the moment. He’s having meltdowns at school, which can be quite violent and are aimed at teachers. Never students. We can’t work out why, there are triggers but normally small things that shouldn’t cause such a breakdown.
Where do I stand legally? I have a meeting coming up and I just think they’re going to say they can’t cope with him anymore. He wasn’t like this before. There’s always been issues, and meltdowns at school but he was never violent until his first stint in keyworker school last year. That then stopped when he returned to normal school in September. But has restarted again after Xmas and the latest lockdown.

You need to get in touch with the Sen support department at your local authority and find out if they are aware of the situation. If they have been struggling to meet the needs of your child then they should have been asking for help.

You should self refer to SENDIASS who will be able to liaise between school and LA colleagues and also help you find out if the exclusion is legal.

Can you get someone to support you at the meeting? Its very helpful to have someone.

I think you need to hear what they have done to support him so far and how well its worked and ensure it has been evidenced very clearly.
Then ask about any outside agencies that could help. So there is often a behaviour support team at LAs, some special schoools do outreach and these are lower cost. They arent diagnosis lead.
And ask about the ehcp process.

I'm shocked they haven't even bothered to do an IEP.

You should be having a meeting with his class teacher termly. The IEP should set out what he struggles with, plan of action to overcome this and progress every term.
My son also set his own goals and came up with his own suggestions with what could help him.

It sounds like the school aren't even doing the bare minimum tbh.

@Shitfuckcommaetc

He needs a diagnosis in order to access the support he needs

I wish people wouldn't say things like this as fact when they're really not!!

Support is done on need, not diagnosis and has been for some time. You need a chat with the senco & teacher. A timetable made for the day, lots of notice if something on the day is to be changed/moved around.
Visual cues can also help, sand timer etc.

I’m a teacher. I also have two children on the spectrum. In an ideal world, or in a decent school, what you say would be true. But often you need a crowbar to prise basic accommodations from staff who see your child as a disruptive, negative problem, and I’ve found that a diagnosis of HFA meant that I had a foundation to base my expectations on.

The school won’t exclude him if they can help it, but may have no choice. Right now your DS may only lash out at teachers which is bad enough but what if he dose lash out at another child. My 6yo dd was punched in the head by a child who had issues, the school had sat him next to my daughter because she was very friendly and the type of child who likes to make others happy. Anyway one day she was using her glue stick and he wanted it, she said just a minuet I’m nearly finished and he punched her right in the ear knocking her flying off chair. She was in pain for days and her ears were actually bruised he punched her so hard. Apparently he’d never hit another child before, but he had been excluded from his previous school. I understand he had problems which is why I didn’t pursue it but I made it very clear unless they kept him completely away from my daughter I would making a freaking huge fuss.

I have a friend whose DS had been excluded for similar reasons. The school tried really hard to manage the situation but in the end they had no choice they had to put the safety of the staff and other children first. My friend told me it was the best thing in the end as it meant she was able to get her ds into a school that was able to manage his needs and help him.

@Salarymallory

Op

There’s violence
Teachers in mainstream school really should not have to face this
And not should the other children have to witness this
Nor should their teaching time be spent on dealing with this violence

I feel for you. But your son should not be at mainstream school.

I think OP knows in her self this is not the right school for him.

Basically her problem is that she is out of step with how the school are handling her son.

Sometimes that is not the school's fault.

<strong>Sometimes</strong>  the school's problem is that the parents  have failed to  listen or to engage with a process.  Perhaps   because the very  loving parents  struggled to face their child's reality.  Parental blinkers  are sometimes  a detriment  to their child.

I hope that's not what happened here. But if it is, OP, now is your chance to change all that , for the best intersts of your boy.

OP - I would re-post in the SEN section because the armchair experts are going to mislead you.

With respect, the only reason I’m sitting in an armchair is because I’m semi retired. I’m not giving the OP advice off the top of my head or about my own child. And I’ve made it clear to the OP that all my advice is based on the procedures in my LA, where I worked for 20 years and that they may be slightly different in hers.

I really feel for you and you dc- it sounds like he is having a really hard time and looking for stability. But equally his teachers are on the receiving end of him being physical with them and it is unfair to them to ask them to continue in that environment.

I really do think it’s the best school for him. They understand him. He has never had a violent outburst in his class in front of other children. It’s usually because he has left class and is wandering round or has stormed off and is trying to climb or something he shouldn’t. SLT intervene and it escalates.
Until last year he attended key worker school he’d never been violent in school. Not once. Although always had difficulties.

He is now in fight or flight mode too often. He’s been in 3 classes in a month. The sen class less than a week and incidents seem to have ramped up. It’s all the changes I think. Completely different routine, teachers and children.

He was assessed for asd in 2018/19 and they said no but I’ll push for a reassessment as I think he does have asd. We’re waiting on adhd assessment. I’ve looked into pda and odd, some of which resonates but not enough. Also dyspraxia a little bit.

But on the whole of you met him and spent the day with him you would think he’s ‘normal’ child for his age.

For now do you think the sen class or the other class is the best place for him? I would have a think and insist he stays in the same setting for at least the next half term preferably the rest of the academic year.

School have already identified that he needs extra support so that will be enough for him to qualify for a needs assessment for a possible EHCP.

Good luck and don’t feel guilty for shouting from the rooftops if you need to. You are his advocate

Lying under sleeping baby so going to be quick. He sounds exactly like my DS, since diagnosed with ADHD and medication and the right support has changed his life. My advice to you is:

• join EHCP support groups on FB, a really valuable source of support and advice for you
• submit subject access request to school. This will provide you with details of all behavioural incidents, referrals to professionals etc that have been made. You can submit this as evidence when you make parental request for EHCP.
• make parental request for EHCP
• write down everything you can that you think might possibly help your son in school. Take it to your meeting and ask school what they can implement. If he's nearing exclusion then at a minimum they should be referring to an EP or getting advice from LA. ask school to set out their action plan for establishing and meeting his needs.
• schools need to follow clear policies and procedures in order to exclude. They can't just say 'we give up'. Familiarise yourself with those procedures and make sure they are followed.

These meetings and conversations can be really difficult. I've found it most productive if you can strike a tone of understanding that your son's problems are not just yours and not just the schools but everyone's, and that you need to work together to find the solution.

Wishing you luck,PM me if you like

I just wanted to say that my DS was similar at the age of 6. We were lucky in that school had funding for 1:1 for another child who had left the area so they were able to utilise that staff member for DS whilst we applied for a statement (preEHCP) and a diagnosis- which he got at 7 (ASD). With the right 1:1 (not all were suited) and the correct strategies in place DS managed to remain in mainstream until after A levels with gradual reduction in his 1:1 - it was very much dependent on the subject and teacher in Secondary school. I'm not saying it was all plain sailing and there were many temporary exclusions and isolations as punishment along the way (and some would argue that some of those shouldn't have been given ) but we worked with the schools with regular communication and change of strategy - and sometimes the school got it wrong too. But DS has managed to move away to Uni, finish his degree and take on a Masters, all with minimal support. The key here is to get the right support in place early. It doesn't sound as if the current school has the willingness to try and have placed him on the too difficult pile already. Is there another local mainstream primary which you could try which might have a better reputation for SEN?

You might get more support in the SEN boards or some of the education boards, otherwise you're going to get a lot of people saying that school can't do anything without a diagnosis when they can.
I was going to send you a link to High Needs Funding but it's a pdf and copying the link isn't working.

School have several duties here. They have a duty to educate your child and keep him safe, they have a duty to educate other children and keep them safe, and finally they have a duty to their staff to keep them safe at work.

Have you tried IPSEA or any other SEN charities?

OP, your son is violent, whether this is a result of SEN or not. Teachers and pupils shouldn’t have to face regular violence and disruption in the classroom, sad as it is for your son.

You say it ‘isn’t his fault’, do you discipline him firmly but fairly? It sounds like his ‘triggers’ are just things he doesn’t want to do which have been overnanalysed a little bit, and you seem to praise the fact the school doesn’t punish him.

As he doesn’t seem to have any issues besides the violent outbursts, have you tried anger management counselling? My brother had violent outbursts as a child, after a few sessions he was like a different child and was never violent again.

Oh my goodness, this could be me writing this from 9 years ago.

I've not got much time now unfortunately, but quick things to recommend are:

Apply yourself for EHCP (DS's school were happy to support me app.yong but refused point blank to apply themselves)
Ask school to refer to behaviour support team at the local authority at the very minimum. They should also be putting on a bid for funding for a 1:1. This isn't dependant on EHCP. DS had 1:1 from 4 and didn't get a statement (precursor to EHCP until he was nearly 8).
Go to IPSEA and SOS!SEN websites, they have a wealth of support materials and advice available.

Good luck! As I say I was exactly where you are now back in 2011. DS has stayed in mainstream school all through, copes amazingly well now, and is off to FE college in September.

I have been right where you are OP, and my son is now in an appropriate setting for his needs. Get onto Camhs and get the school to do the same. Whatever you do, unless you have the ability to home school, don't lie down and take them excluding him as he won't end up in another school if he's violent, he'll end up in a PRU, and they're awful, awful places. Ask school to get the educational psychologist involved too, if they're not already.

I think sometimes it becomes a bit of a perfect storm. 7/8 is a classic time for children who mask ASD well to unravel as the curriculum demands increase. Add in lockdown and the multiple changes and it just tips over.

It's difficult to gage how long to persist in changes but I agree that a choice needs to be made to not keep moving him.

There's rarely a quick fix, I have 2 with ehcp and they share a diagnosis but the support they need is chalk and cheese.

@MinnieMous3

OP, your son is violent, whether this is a result of SEN or not. Teachers and pupils shouldn’t have to face regular violence and disruption in the classroom, sad as it is for your son.

You say it ‘isn’t his fault’, do you discipline him firmly but fairly? It sounds like his ‘triggers’ are just things he doesn’t want to do which have been overnanalysed a little bit, and you seem to praise the fact the school doesn’t punish him.

As he doesn’t seem to have any issues besides the violent outbursts, have you tried anger management counselling? My brother had violent outbursts as a child, after a few sessions he was like a different child and was never violent again.

The OP’s son is too young for any kind of counselling (BACP guidelines).

www.bacp.co.uk/media/2335/bacp-competences-map-for-working-with-young-people.pdf

Can you afford a private assessment? That might help to speed up any diagnosis

Apologies if you’ve misunderstood. He is not in class. He is in a small sen class and has never had an outburst in class. The violent episodes are recent, and are only after staff have physically touched him. Not saying they shouldn’t, as it was obviously necessary but just a bit of context.