Panicking that we cannot afford this baby and we will not cope.

[Redrosesblue]

I have just found out I'm pregnant and completly freaking out. DD has just celebrated her first birthday this week and this is a completely unplanned pregnancy.
We always planned to start TTC for DC2 when DD was at least 2 years 3 months so that by the time the baby arrived, she would definitely be entitled to her 30 free hours childcare. I earn good enough money and am the breadwinner. DH is self employed and his income has been hit hard by Covid (perfectly timed for mat leave with DD1 to start) and I ended up going back to work much earlier than planned to make sure we were okay.
There's no way we can afford double the childcare. DD will only be 1 year 8 months when this baby arrives so even if I take her out of childcare for my mat leave, she'll still be far off 3 by the time I need to go back to work which means double the childcare fees! I am terrified. We cannot afford this baby. I also suffered very badly with hyperemesis last time and I don't know how I will cope. DD is still breastfed to sleep and DH can't get her to sleep on his own. There's so many reasons why this is just not a good time! I'm so scared. I don't want to have to consider termination and never ever thought I would need to but I am so worried that there's no way we can make this work.

I'm a bit late to the thread, but I really recommend having a nanny at home with more than 1 preschooler. We had a nanny that came everyday when I was working. It is a fixed cost, there is no nursery drop offs and the children have all their comforts around them. As long as DH's salary is covering the cost of childcare, it would not be necessary to give up work.

Does he have a plan in place to earn significantly more in the future?

I know you want to support him, but bringing home significantly less than minimum wage and being away 50 hours a week is just not sustainable unless there is huge scope for increased earnings (how?).

It's all very well enjoying what you do, but if you're enjoying it at the expense of the family being solvent it's not acceptable.

If it were the case that this is temporary and he will bring in much more (or even just at least minimum wage!!) soon then that's fine. But if this is a permanent hobby job paying £5.50/hour and taking up his whole week then he just can't do it. He could work a normal 37 hour week for minimum wage, and find an apprentice to do the odd tree job with him at the weekends or in the evenings. He would be working less, earning more, and not shunting the whole financial, emotional and physical burden of having a family onto you.

Minimum wage FT (37hours) job: ~£1300/month after tax. Add on 2-3 small tree jobs, evening or weekend, per month could be another £500/month. And he would only be working 40ish hours per week on average. That would save you 10 hours per week in childcare- average 4.3 weeks in a month- that's £344 saved right there.

If he doesn't want to do that he needs a concrete plan as to how he can make his job earn at least minimum wage. Otherwise it's just a hobby that you are funding.

You shouldn't have to justify your abortion to anyone.

But if it comes down solely to finances, are you essentially being pushed into having an abortion to enable your husband to continue an expensive hobby that he can't make into a career? You matter too here.

Am sorry that you are feeling so distressed, and hope that you can find a good solution to your current problems.

Please excuse what follows - I really don't want to be critical:

HOW much is your husband charging for wood? Up here, in the Highlands, absolutely surrounded by trees, wood is very plentiful but it's still £140 per trailer-load delivered, plus an extra £10 delivery for distances over 10 miles. It has to be delivered - no-one collects it.

The local wood is good quality, the trailer loads are generous - we used to reckon on 2 -3 loads for a winter (wood-fired central heating) - it's cut into managable sizes for wood burners and usually delivered within 48 hours of order. The wood-cutters are a professional well-run small business.

The previous poster's idea of selling and delivering bagged wood-chip is also good - that has many uses in gardens, for chickens etc. One person I know sells bulk wood-chip on regular contracts to people and businesses with wood-chip burning boilers.

Some other small businesses who sell and deliver wood also sell and deliver bottled gas or other heavy/bulky supplies, such as bags of smokeless fuel or even compost (they buy pallet loads at a discount and sell and deliver individual bags at a higher price).

Has your husband done his local market research properly? Has he/his partner thought of offering a 'deliver and stack' service, for example? Has he done a proper, costed, business plan?

Is there a reason a self employed tree surgeon can’t work weekends?

You can also look into taking a mortgage holiday.

You've got two separate issues.

1. Exhaustion and morning sickness. It's horrible and I completely understand your reservations in managing DD whilst handling it. However, it does vary from pregnancy to pregnancy and you may have a milder version this time around. As you were planning a second anyway, it's worth looking into coping strategies and I second counselling, whatever you decide to do.

2)Finances. If you won £20,000 off the lottery, would you still feel the financial pressure to terminate? If the answer is "no", sit down with DH and plan out how you will cope. It could be selling the wood to a wholesaler or requesting up-front payment. It could be switching to a childminder, cutting back his hours to reduce the childcare to three weekday, suspending the mortgage payments or using an interest-free credit card. You can also both overpay on childcare credits now, as well, as a precaution against the future (as the Government tops them up).

Speaking as someone else who is self-employed with a partner as the main breadwinner, I am sympathetic to his predicament, but the brutal reality is that he finds a way to fund the shortfall, or he finds the time. It cannot be all on you.

@MySocalledLoaf

Could you take out a loan for the childcare? If you’re planning to have two anyway you’d have the expense at some point. I have a planned 11 month gap and it’s been great.

You planned two kids 11 months apart? Are they in the same school year? I’m not sure I could cope with with being pregnant again after eight weeks.

A thought re DH- if he's a tree surgeon working in a partnership could he cut back to four days a week? His partner could then do quotes or more simple work that doesn't need a partner (hedges, garden clearance or shredding stuff for gardeners that don't have their own shredding equipment). Then DH could do a few evenings or a bit of time on the weekend doing quotes or the paperwork to pick up the slack.

If you can reduce the amount of nursery needed it would reduce your costs a lot.

I really don't think your DH should give up work. There is a good chance things will improve plus what about his work mate? Should he just lose his job?

Your DD will suffer because of your sickness so not fair on her.

In your situation I would have a termination and make sure I didn't get pregnant by accident again

Would it be an option for DH to work Wed-Sun and take his 'weekend' during the week and do childcare then after your mat leave? or drop a day or two during the week as it doesn't sound like the work is flooding in anyway and would save you a lot of money on childcare.

if you have an abortion it is possible you might never get pregnant again so might be best just to go with this one

Shit like this on threads like these, really bothers me. It just smacks of judgemental viewpoints dressed up as fearmongering ‘advice’.

Could you potentially both work a 4 day week but different days, then you'd only need to cover 3 days of childcare. Or could dh drop to 3 days a week?

(Kust to correct a post about if you are self employed you cannot claim nursery expenses against tax and never have been able to as HMRC do not regard those expenses as wholly and exclusively to enable to work unlike buying tools to work. It is very very frustrating it has never been allowed for us self employed as for many of us child care is higher even than rent or mortgage costs. One this the state could do for parents now given it has found the magic money tree and is handing out our money hand over fist at present would be to allow 100% of childcare costs where both parents work to be deducted fully from tax bills).

if you have an abortion it is possible you might never get pregnant again so might be best just to go with this one

Where is your evidence for that?

I have no evidence for that at all. It is just you never know. Some people have secondary infertility so here is a baby come a little bit early they were planning to have anyway and it is possible it might be the last they can have. I just feel it is not worth the risk of not going ahead with this one. However I am not anti - abortion at all.

By the way when we both worked full time as we had one person looking after all the children it was actually a lot cheaper to have them close together so those expensive years were a shorter period although I appreciate it is the opposite with nurseries.

@PurplePansy05

I think we need to get away from thinking it is expensive, and rather, see it as an appropriately priced service.

I think we need to stop justifying the UK governments doing absolutely fuck all for parents on average or slightly above average income in terms of supporting them with childcare costs and encouraging working. We are squeezed like lemons. Childcare costs in this country per family are extortionate and disproportionate and it's not because people don't make much money but because people on middle incomes get no or barely any help making it impossible. If you ever bothered to compare the costs with any other EU country, your jaw would drop and this would be an eye opener. The UK is an unsupportive shithole for most working parents and consecutive governments onlg look at shifting the costs on parents and not offering them any relief whatsoever. It's an absolute disgrace.

OP 💐 it's very stressful and a shock to the system. I'd say get a loan. Get it as late as you can, save up as much as possible now and get a longer term loan. This plus get DH to work a second job/more hours/change jobs for the time being. You will make it work. Don't forget increased child benefit and some nurseries give a sibling discount too. Every little helps! xx

This. Not nearly enough is done to support parents. Yet we’re supposed to provide the next generation of taxpayers and ensure they turn into functioning adults.

Sorry OP, it’s tough but I’m sure you’ll manage regardless of what you decide.

If there is nothing that excites you about having DC2 a year earlier than planned, please don’t take a termination off the table. You will hate yourself for it on those sleepless nights or if the money worries grow for some reason.

If you actually like the idea of your two DC being closer in age and don’t mind frontloading some of the costs, then go for it.

Secondary infertility is shit. I got pregnant with DC1 the first month we tried. Two and a half years of ttc this time around and nothing. I feel our family life has been on hold as we've been trying and planning for another baby who hasn't appeared.

There is no indication that this will happen to the OP but it feels only right to flag it as a risk so she can make an informed decision. Sometimes, life doesn't turn out the way we expect. But this doesn't mean that abortion is the wrong decision for her and her family, just that she should be prepared for the (hopefully small) risk that things may not turn out as she would have hoped down the line.

Your husband strikes me as being awkward and you both are full of excuses.

Either you want to keep the baby and you find a way to make it work. Money will be tight but possible - there are many options here if you give up your defense of your DPs job and care for this business partner who seems to be more considered than your own family. A Wed - Sun working week on his behalf would make most sense to minimize childcare days. It is only for a year or two crossover. Could he employ a laborer as opposed to another qualified tree surgeon? Surely this is more cost effective? Why on earth is he happy to put such stress on his family and work such long weeks for less than min wage? Is it an ego thing - does he value being his own boss over providing for his family? I don't mean to sound harsh but honestly, there are solutions here if he and you are prepared to face reality and be flexible.

Or perhaps you do not want to keep the baby, you admit this to yourself and you terminate.

Just a note given a couple of posters have suggested getting an au pair because it’s much cheaper childcare. You can’t use an au pair for full time childcare, nor for the sole care of babies and young toddlers while parents are out at work all day.

Silly advice!

Why are posters talking about the OP getting a loan - she says they can’t afford another baby now so a loan would just make their finances worse and she isn’t ready for another baby.

I wouldn't discuss it with anyone irl while you're considering what to do. You'll find it easier to move on if it's only been between you and DH.

I hope you find a way you can make it work if you want to (though some of this advice is really not realistic, they may as well suggest you stand on your roof yelling for Mary Poppins to move in with you) but if you choose to terminate this pregnancy, think of it in the way that you're protecting your existing family.

And your physical and mental health! That is not a negligible thing. I know Mum's are meant to be all-altruistic, who cares if there's nothing left of you as long as the kids are fine, but in reality you are entitled to a life too. And your DD needs a healthy happy Mum. If you choose to abort, then you've made the right choice for your family at that time, and you'll probably be able to have another baby when it's more convenient. Someone will probably come along to say that there are no guarantees which is true, but I'd sooner take a chance on not having another than having one when it will cause a lot of stress. I know several women who had multiple abortions as teenagers and they have multiple children now.

Can your DH stay at home and look after them once your Mat leave is finished?
Unfortunately not, we both work in jobs that are done during office hours and no real way around that.

Which one of you earns more? It makes financial sense for that one to be working and the other to take mat leave and maybe get a part-time job around the breadwinner's job. We sort of did that.

We couldn't afford childcare either, it's expensive.
Take off what it would actually cost to work and you'll be better off at home.
So much better than both chasing around like headless chickens and not seeing your family.
Kids don't cost much at all, their needs are only the basic ones. Food, shelter, warmth.
Buy everything second hand and use charity shops, use free entertainment, go down to one car, move to a cheaper area. etc

You need a loan of about £13k to begin in about 12 months.
If you can get a good rate over 10 years with an option to repay early if possible then I think financially you would manage.
Or you could get the loan now and bank it whilst beginning the repayments now.
Or do you have parents that would loan you the money?

Whether or not you can manage physically and emotionally is a different issue.

My friend was in this position and her and her DH worked opposite shifts for a while, one worked Mon to Thur, the other worked Thur to Sun. Not ideal, but only for a short period of time.