Police drive way too fast, way too often

[TheReluctantPhoenix]

AIBU in thinking that too many police drive dangerously and unjustifiably fast without sufficient reason to do so?

Thread prompted by, in the last 5 days, seeing two cars (in separate incidents) driving down suburban outer London streets with cars parked on both sides, at a speed of at least 50MPH (they have 20 MPH limits). There is no way they could have stopped in time for a child or a dog, or a car which came out of a high street.

Also watching the series ‘Police Interceptors’ I get really angry when they prompt a chase at ridiculous speeds (70-100 mph) in villages. Then they say how they pursued car is being ridiculously irresponsible! And who are the master criminals that they catch? 90% of the time it is kids in battered old cars which are either uninsured or they are ‘drug dealers’ (a few wraps or spliffs).

I never observe the other emergency services taking the risks the police do, although I suspect they have many more life or death call outs.

I don’t care how ‘well trained’ you are (and the reality is an ‘advanced’ driver is 2 months of training), human reaction time is around 0.2 seconds, and that is plenty to kill or maim a child or animal.

So, AIBU in thinking that the police drive way too fast, for what frequently appears to be an adrenaline buzz, and that, these days, there are far more intelligent and less risky ways to keep our streets safe?

@TheReluctantPhoenix you keep saying police chasing for petty offences...are you not listening to the numerous posters advising you that offence is taken into consideration when a pursuit is authorised??
And if it’s not authorised, 99.9% of officers are not going to risk being disciplined, sacked or risk prosecution by continuing.

The same with blue light driving in general.

@Foreverlexicon,

Listening....and, more importantly, reading actual statistics.

Then why continue saying why do police pursue for petty crimes when they don’t?

@TheReluctantPhoenix Well hopefully you never need a quick response from the police!

@Foreverlexicon,

From the guardian article (yes, a secondary source, but a fairly reliable one):

‘In only 5% of fatal police chases was the person being pursued what the public would consider to be ‘a serious criminal...’

If you have a better source, do link to it, please.

@Snackz,

Read the thread before posting that vacuous comment, that has already been posted plenty.

'I never observe the other emergency services taking the risks the police do, although I suspect they have many more life or death call outs.'

You couldn't be more wrong, Police attend all trauma calls, fires, and are often first on scene to medical emergencies as well as all crime calls, not forgetting high risk missing's.

@TheReluctantPhoenix

Thank you for some interesting responses. I am taking them all in, on both sides of the argument.

But, I will say that questioning one aspect of policing does not make me anti police. I know that they generally do a good job under trying conditions, especially now with COVID.

However, when it comes to driving recklessly, I do think that some of the responses confirm that some believe that extra training allows one to avoid the laws of physics and biology, and this is dangerous.

And I do think that risks should be assessed against rewards. Is it really worth risking life (even the 'bad guy's) for getting back a stolen car or getting someone banned for driving without road tax or insurance. Of course peoples should just stop if the police request it but, in other areas of policing, they are trained (and very good at) de-escalating situations.

As I think was said in the Guardian article, if they did let the dangerous drivers get away, they would almost certainly get seen by another ANPR camera later and get caught by regular policing methods within a couple of days. They are generally not master criminals.

They’re not ‘getting back a stolen car’, though - they’re trying to stop the idiot driving it at reckless speed before they can cause damage to someone else.

I was badly injured in a seven-car pile up caused by a driver in a stolen car steaming down a slip road and ploughing into queuing traffic. He was NOT being chased by police, so it was all his own doing. He chose to drive like that, as many drivers in stolen vehicles do. If the police had been able to stop him sooner then my injuries, and those of the others who were hurt, would have been avoided.

I think you need much more data and a better understanding of the parameters in which the police work before you can make the sort of statement you do in your OP.

@TheReluctantPhoenix I have read the thread and I still don't agree with what you are saying. Does your original post go towards ambulances and the fire brigade and their fast speed or is it just aimed at the police?

If crime did not exist, police wouldn't need to do any chasing (and risk their own safety in the process too)

@tangerinelollipop

If crime did not exist, police wouldn't need to do any chasing (and risk their own safety in the process too)

Well of course. But that doesn't mean that 42 deaths a year should be just brushed away. Some of them might have been down to poor driving or poor decision making by the police.

I understand your point op, but I still come down on the side of feeling the police need to act and simply saying “we don’t chase for minor crimes” is the wrong solution.

Again I know stats are hard to come by but how often does a stop for something minor (driving offence, speed etc) uncover something more major (drug dealing, banned drivers, drunk etc). The stat that 5% of chases were for major crimes I’d guess doesn’t take that into account?

Also, again stats permitting, I’d like to see what % of injuries are caused by police bad driving vs criminal bad driving

Overall my view is still that the polices role is to apprehend, and they are correct to respond at speed, and chase at speed where someone is attempting to flee.

My source is working on frontline policing for many years. For some years, this includes being aware of all jobs running for the entire force.

I have only know of one full pursuit to be authorised and that job involved firearms.

I also know of a job where someone made off from police and ended up in a fatal collision (the suspect was the fatality), the officers did not pursue. They let them go but the driver continued, crashed and died. Statistically, this will count as a police collision as they tried to pull the car over by activating blue lights prior to the collision but they did not pursue.

I also know of a job where someone made off from police and ended up in a fatal collision (the suspect was the fatality), the officers did not pursue.

So it was still their fault ?

Well worth reading the commentary.

Good to see the motoring public pulling to one side to let the scotes through. Trying to stop them could have ended in tragedy if they'd been armed.

(Personally I would have locked the offender up for a year at least since with their disregard for life they need a lesson).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-birmingham-56588847

Wrong-way driver's car shunted into tree by Birmingham police

i used to work on disused airfield where every day police cars trained at high speed chase,for hours, wish i could drive like tha that

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Foreverlexicon,

From the guardian article (yes, a secondary source, but a fairly reliable one):

‘In only 5% of fatal police chases was the person being pursued what the public would consider to be ‘a serious criminal...’

If you have a better source, do link to it, please.[/quote]
What does the Guardian say the "public consider to be a serious criminal"? I bet that my views differ.

If someone fails to stop and makes off at high speed, you can bet that they've got more to hide than out of date VED. Drugs or weapons usually.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@Foreverlexicon,

From the guardian article (yes, a secondary source, but a fairly reliable one):

‘In only 5% of fatal police chases was the person being pursued what the public would consider to be ‘a serious criminal...’

If you have a better source, do link to it, please.[/quote]
When it comes to the roads, serious crime is not the main threat to public safety. Driving offenses are almost never considered "serious" crime, but they kill more people than most serious crime does.

What does the Guardian say the "public consider to be a serious criminal"? I bet that my views differ.

I think people here are being very unfair on the police regarding how they approach criminals.

Remember how much of their time has to be spent dealing with inveterate non criminals. Like Harry the Owl.

Probably better leave a discussion as to what what constitutes a crime - let alone a serious crime - out of this. It's not going to help anyone.

lighting up young nervous men is creating a dangerous situation more than solving it.

What is with all the “poor hard done by boys” threads this week?

@ProfessorSlocombe Of course it’s the police’s fault everything is -shrug-

@ProfessorSlocombe

Well worth reading the commentary.

Good to see the motoring public pulling to one side to let the scotes through. Trying to stop them could have ended in tragedy if they'd been armed.

(Personally I would have locked the offender up for a year at least since with their disregard for life they need a lesson).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-birmingham-56588847

Wrong-way driver's car shunted into tree by Birmingham police

In that video, the 'scrotes' would have heard a siren in pursuit of the car and would have pulled over. The scrote actually driving the car would have been presumed to have been an unmarked police car. Of course they pulled over.

Those criminals ain't going to catch themselves

A solution would be to not pursue beyond a certain crime for minor crimes but to substantially increase the penalty for fleeing if you are subsequently caught.

Oh, yes, all those that are caught after dumping the car and running away into the woods/ housing estate ......I think you're missing the link here.

There are lots of blue flashing lights here and they drive quite fast but we are a small village near a major motorway, I suspect some vehicle has crashed or broken down and several will be maimed, killed by oncoming traffic if the traffic isn't stopped quickly.

But, well, motorway vehicles are all doing 70 - what's another 5-10 mins before police arrive, what could go wrontg