Police drive way too fast, way too often

[TheReluctantPhoenix]

AIBU in thinking that too many police drive dangerously and unjustifiably fast without sufficient reason to do so?

Thread prompted by, in the last 5 days, seeing two cars (in separate incidents) driving down suburban outer London streets with cars parked on both sides, at a speed of at least 50MPH (they have 20 MPH limits). There is no way they could have stopped in time for a child or a dog, or a car which came out of a high street.

Also watching the series ‘Police Interceptors’ I get really angry when they prompt a chase at ridiculous speeds (70-100 mph) in villages. Then they say how they pursued car is being ridiculously irresponsible! And who are the master criminals that they catch? 90% of the time it is kids in battered old cars which are either uninsured or they are ‘drug dealers’ (a few wraps or spliffs).

I never observe the other emergency services taking the risks the police do, although I suspect they have many more life or death call outs.

I don’t care how ‘well trained’ you are (and the reality is an ‘advanced’ driver is 2 months of training), human reaction time is around 0.2 seconds, and that is plenty to kill or maim a child or animal.

So, AIBU in thinking that the police drive way too fast, for what frequently appears to be an adrenaline buzz, and that, these days, there are far more intelligent and less risky ways to keep our streets safe?

30 died in 2019 in police chases and far more injured. I believe it was 42 in 2020.

I wonder how many it would be if everyone were just allowed to drive how they wanted, and weren't stopped by the police.

Thank you @plominoagain for taking the time to write all that out.
I can't understand why anyone would put up with being a police officer these days with everything they have to put up with and every single word scrutinised by certain types of people trying to get them into trouble. The same people of course who would be the first to complain if the police didn't get to them in time. .
This last year it seems police officers have overtaken teachers for being the most inspected and most criticised profession.

There was a family put their filming of police officers challenging them over their action all over local social media recently, trying to make out what ogres the police officers were, even though the Dad admitted in the article "I know it {incident} isn't legal, but they are dealing with a kid" and still tying to make out the police were wrong . However, I digress.

Back to OP. Yes, when there is a youth out with a machete, I do want the police to get there asap. No, I don't want them to drive at 30mph to appease someone who seemingly hasn't thought this through, and certainly hasn't any clue about the training and monitoring of police drivers.

On a lighter note, I often have an incontrollable urge to pursue them to see where they're off to when the blues and twos are on! That's me being a nosey bint though.

This happened 3 weeks ago in Ireland. It's almost funny. This lunatic led the police on a chase down the M50 from inner city dublin to Bray Co. Wicklow, then back again. Watch the whole video. Helicoptor unit was also involved. And a shit load of police cars!

She failed to stop at a police checkpoint, and that led to this pursuit!

I think there’s certainly room to look at police response to teenagers who are joyriding. I don’t think it’s clear that there will be fewer accidents or deaths and injuries if police don’t pursue in those types of situations (people are killed by joyriders not in police chases too) but there’s also some evidence some joyriders are encouraged by pursuit. The same may be true in some other situations too.

In general, though, I think we have remarkably few injuries from police vehicles given the job they are doing. It’s a testament to the training (which isn’t limited to the initial course), screening and policies in place.

30 died in 2019 in police chases and far more injured. I believe it was 42 in 2020.

Those figures also include criminals being pursued by police though. So possibly culpable in some way for their own demise. When I was digging up some stats I excluded them and only gave the figures for bystanders.

Generally, if you get flashed, you should stop. The moment you decide not to, you need to be aware that you are embarking upon a course of action that could result in someones death. Ideally yours and yours alone, but life is rarely that fair.

I have been in the back of a police car when the cop driving was doing about 80 in back lanes at night! (no blues on... no need). Scared the crap out of me but then I tried to remember they are trained for high speed stuff.

The person I know who died certainly wasn’t culpable. She was driving perfectly sensibly and legally when a police car rounded a corner on the wrong side of the road and smashed into her.

Unpopular opinion, but I know a cop.

A lot of them are petrol heads.

They like to throw their dicks around. And if fast cars are the only way to do it then they will.

I dont use the term 'useless' mildly. Or politicitcly. But I do think it's fair. The police aren't great.

And as per Xeno’s experience, no lights or siren on.

@XenoBitch

I have been in the back of a police car when the cop driving was doing about 80 in back lanes at night! (no blues on... no need). Scared the crap out of me but then I tried to remember they are trained for high speed stuff.

How did you happen to be in the back at those speeds ?

@CarlottaValdez

And as per Xeno’s experience, no lights or siren on.

If that was the case, I hope they were found culpable. If they're speeding, they need to warn people with their lights and siren.

The dead woman’s family got a large payout - I’m not sure what (if any) action was taken against the officer driving. This was about 30 years ago now.

The stupid kids they are chasing kill people. I work for the emergency services, they steal cars, knock people down, or wrap themselves round trees and kill everyone in the car. They have to be taken off the streets. What should the police do, stop once they hit 40 and just let them go? You're ridiculous

They had more training than any non police person
I’d go bloody fast if I was a copper zoooommmm nee naw

@londongirl12

The stupid kids they are chasing kill people. I work for the emergency services, they steal cars, knock people down, or wrap themselves round trees and kill everyone in the car. They have to be taken off the streets. What should the police do, stop once they hit 40 and just let them go? You're ridiculous

This. Its not hard to understand. If people didn't steal cars / drink drive / drive uninsured / drive like dickheads, they wouldn't need to pursue them would they. Hardly the police's fault.

@IEat

They had more training than any non police person I’d go bloody fast if I was a copper zoooommmm nee naw

Haha, that made me chuckle as that's exactly how I'd be! Was prone to a bit of speed in my youth myself. Now that I'm older, I drive like an old fogey on a Sunday.

Thank you for some interesting responses. I am taking them all in, on both sides of the argument.

But, I will say that questioning one aspect of policing does not make me anti police. I know that they generally do a good job under trying conditions, especially now with COVID.

However, when it comes to driving recklessly, I do think that some of the responses confirm that some believe that extra training allows one to avoid the laws of physics and biology, and this is dangerous.

And I do think that risks should be assessed against rewards. Is it really worth risking life (even the 'bad guy's) for getting back a stolen car or getting someone banned for driving without road tax or insurance. Of course peoples should just stop if the police request it but, in other areas of policing, they are trained (and very good at) de-escalating situations.

As I think was said in the Guardian article, if they did let the dangerous drivers get away, they would almost certainly get seen by another ANPR camera later and get caught by regular policing methods within a couple of days. They are generally not master criminals.

How did you happen to be in the back at those speeds ?

I was being taken to a Place of Safety (for mental health) and the only available one was about 50 miles out of area. So I can only assume the cops wanted to get back pronto... but he had no lights or sirens on, and could have caused a terrible accident.

Also watching the series ‘Police Interceptors’ I get really angry when they prompt a chase at ridiculous speeds (70-100 mph) in villages.

The police are responsible for "prompting" the chase, when the person they are pursuing has failed to stop. Right.....

What should the police do, stop once they hit 40 and just let them go?

Well if they aren't trained in high speed pursuits. Yes.

If they are trained, then they need to make a judgement call - ideally assisted by as much information as possible from the surrounding officers - as to whether to engage in pursuit or stand down, depending on the exact nature of the situation. Which could be complicated, fast moving and confusing. Maybe for a couple of joyriders it might be better to stand down and use other resources. However if it's an intelligence led stop with a suggestion (for example) of firearms or explosives in the car, then it might be more imperative to stop the vehicle.

No one is ahead of me in the queue to acknowledge the debt we owe all good policemen. Right up until they start covering for the bad ones. Then I rather lose interest.

This is a video of some of their training. Loads of videos on youtube

@XenoBitch

How did you happen to be in the back at those speeds ?

I was being taken to a Place of Safety (for mental health) and the only available one was about 50 miles out of area. So I can only assume the cops wanted to get back pronto... but he had no lights or sirens on, and could have caused a terrible accident.

Kinda underscores my point about bad officers.

If there was no need to exceed the speed limit, then there was no need and they should not have done it. And if they happened to be snapped by a camera, they can bloody well take the points.

Anyone else have a weird idea the police should obey the law ?

"AIBU in thinking that too many police drive dangerously and unjustifiably fast without sufficient reason to do so?"

Yes, YABU. Very.

"I never observe the other emergency services taking the risks the police do, although I suspect they have many more life or death call outs."

Wrong.

"AIBU in thinking that the police drive way too fast, for what frequently appears to be an adrenaline buzz"

Yes. YABU.

"And I do think that risks should be assessed against rewards"

They are. Thank god it's the Police Officers making these constant risk assessments as opposed to you.

"they would almost certainly get seen by another ANPR camera later and get caught by regular policing methods within a couple of days"

Ah well, that's ok then. Just let them crack on for a few days, I mean, the only criminals we should be concerned about are the "Master Criminals" you speak of

@ismiseeire

This is a video of some of their training. Loads of videos on youtube

They used to have open days at the Hendon training college back in the day. They let the public have a go on the skid pan (longest queue) and the royal driving course with a ball bearing in a dish on the bonnet, and police officer walking alongside to pick it up.

You could also tour the workshops where they made "adjustments" to the stock cars to make them in to chase cars.