To wonder when someone will stop us from destroying the planet before it is too late?

[Ohdoleavemealone]

Last night I watched a documentary about how the biggest threat to our oceans is the fishing industry. Worse than plastics (and actually 46% of the plastic is fishing nets), worse than killing sharks for fin soup or putting animals into captivity.
The bycatch from fishing means we are killing thousands of species for the few we want. We have depleted the oceans resources and killed the seabeds with the harsh methods used.
Of course this is on top of our piles of rubbish, fuel polution etc.
We have been destroying our planet for years but have really accelerated in the last 50 years as corporate companies have no moral compass and the rest of us are just sheep. We believe that we need all the consumer driven shit they tell us and we fund the industries killing our planet.
So how does it stop? Is it too late? Do we just accept it or do we try and fight for it? Are we little people enough?

Full disclosure: I do not do enough on a small level to do my bit but I am looking for ways I can.

@UhtredRagnarson

Am I uncomfortable? Certainly not.

And yet despite all this- the planet is still choking. Perhaps because it’s not enough?

Or maybe because there aren't many people who live the same way. And fwiw I asked how uncomfortable Op was prepared to be. You are telling me you aren’t uncomfortable- so you’re not answering the question of how uncomfortable you’re prepared to be. I was making the point that one can be perfectly comfortable without many of the things which are damaging the planet.

@FluffiesWuffy

This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.

Yep

@pourqouimoi

I saw a documentary recently where they cited a study which suggested that if we all went back to adopting the living standards/consumption patterns of the Swiss in the 1960s, it would have a massive impact on climate change/environmental destruction. I think on a personal level we all have to give up meat and stop buying shite we don't need (especially clothes)

I agree, there are simple steps that we could all take to mitigate the impending doom. However, it would mean less mindless consumerism which the government don't want, because that's bad for the economy.

If we switched back to buying locally grown food it would help, just think of how many miles the food in the supermarket travels from, it's insane.

We just consume way too much, it's not just population (which is a problem), it's that every person now wants the middle class lifestyle of stuff and more stuff. Like clothes, we buy new clothes every season because clothes have become cheaper. But they're only really cheap because we have offloaded the real cost of manufacturing and materials to poorer countries.

I don't have kids, not because of the environment, but I am glad that I don't to worry what may happen in their lifetime, or my grandkids lifetime.

There will come a time, in the 50 years or so, when the oil/ gas reserves will not be able to sustain our complex societies. And most people just say 'oh we can switch to renewable energy', like its an easy transition.
But it's not; renewables do not have the same energy output as oil or gas, in addition, they are unreliable. Think of solar power - this only works on a sunny day, so you can't predict how much energy you will get. Same with wind farms, if it's not windy out there is no energy.

If we went back to a simpler life, with less stuff and more time - to grow our own food, raise our own meat, buy locally and work as communities then it would make a huge difference. It's how our ancestors lived.
People actually work more hours than 50 years ago, and make more money, but we spend it on stuff we don't need. It we stripped back to the basics and found pleasure and comfort in simpler things, I think it would actually make many of us happier.

I believe this will happen, but it may take catastrophe to force it to happen. However, humans are very adaptable, so I live in hope!

Or maybe because there aren't many people who live the same way.

Which was my point. You and a few others around the world doing what you’re doing isn’t enough. It’s doing very little in reality. For it to have a real impact it would have to be world wide and for that to happen it, and realistically, a lot more, would have to be compulsory. At which point you might find yourself uncomfortable.

I was making the point that one can be perfectly comfortable without many of the things which are damaging the planet.

And like I said, what you’re currently comfortable with isn’t really helping.

@FluffiesWuffy

This is a story about four people named Everybody, Somebody, Anybody and Nobody.

There was an important job to be done and Everybody was sure that Somebody would do it. Anybody could have done it, but Nobody did it. Somebody got angry about that, because it was Everybody's job. Everybody thought Anybody could do it, but Nobody realized that Everybody wouldn't do it.

It ended up that Everybody blamed Somebody when Nobody did what Anybody could have done.

Which is precisely why I'm ignoring all of the "It's too late to do anything and what difference would one person make anyway?" posts.

My actions alone will make little difference. If other people take actions though, it starts to add up. We can't keep waiting for someone else to throw the first stone though, we need to take responsibility ourselves.

Businesses make things and we buy them. We talk of industry but making what? Components for things we buy or want.
Rampant consumerism is a massive reason for some of the damage, yet people seem to not put the whole idea together.

I hate the we recycle mantra. Reduce, reuse needs to the first step but PR companies have convinced every one that they need everything.

The most frightening article that shows how nature is responding is in The Observer today that states chemical pollution is so bad that by 2050 most people will need IVF as they will be sub fertile.

It feels like we are dancing while Rome is burning.

@UhtredRagnarson

Or maybe because there aren't many people who live the same way.

Which was my point. You and a few others around the world doing what you’re doing isn’t enough. It’s doing very little in reality. For it to have a real impact it would have to be world wide and for that to happen it, and realistically, a lot more, would have to be compulsory. At which point you might find yourself uncomfortable.

I was making the point that one can be perfectly comfortable without many of the things which are damaging the planet.

And like I said, what you’re currently comfortable with isn’t really helping.

But that all comes back to the Anybody, Somebody, Everybody and Nobody thing. I can't make a difference alone but that's no reason not to start setting an example for others to follow.

I don't believe in any kind of god but I do believe that nature acts as a balancing force on earth. At the moment humans are like a plague on the planet. There are too many of us and we are using the world's resources against it (e.g. intensive farming depleting nutrients from the soil so that nothing will grow). COVID was one of nature's responses but it doesn't look to have "worked" to reduce the population in any meaningful way on a global level. There will be something else before too long.

Well, I am going to try and do something. Starting small but I already buy alot of second hand but could do better. I am trying to look into ways that will reduce plastic wrap and food waste.
I am going to cut out fish completely and massively reduce our meat. I have a bike that I will use where possible instead of the car and most importantly I am going to educate my children to do what they can as well.

I watched that documentary too, at least I watched most of it - I had to stop at the bit in the Faroe Islands because I was too upset.
MN teaches me regularly that many people simply do not care about the environment and they feel entitled to get whatever they want with no regard to it. I don’t know how we change that attitude.

MN teaches me regularly that many people simply do not care about the environment and they feel entitled to get whatever they want with no regard to it. I don’t know how we change that attitude.

You can’t. It’s human nature. It would take a catastrophic planet event to wipe out the ability to just get what we want when we want and the survivors would have to relearn how to live.

This is so dumb. You know reproductive aged people were barely affected, right?

Yes, because we kept them mostly indoors. If we had not had a lockdown, not bothered with a vaccine etc and just let it spread around, mutating, getting worse, still fancying your chances?

We don't know if a new mutation in the future will effect fertility for example. They currently don't but will a new one? It could mutate in any way. People question if the vaccine will, but thats a different argument. People have gotten both vaccines and still caught covid. Young people are being effected by long covid as well, not just old people. To the point its starting to worry the government on how many will now be on long term sick, not working.

I think the very existence of this thread is a source of hope. Yes let's keep talking about it, see if there can be a thread a day about turning our environmental behaviour around. And I don't mean pointing the finger at individuals.

It is too late to prevent climate change but I don't think it's too late to stop it being much much worse. Covid has shown us that really the world CAN react and adjust. It will truly take action at every level of the system, and all of them. So, not just government, but not without government. Not just communities and individuals, but not without them. With engineers, but not only engineers. With companies, enterprises, creative arts, media, etc.

The basis of our economy is extractive, using up the planet's resources without thinking about the limits. Covid has rejigged/knocked our 'economy' anyway so let's reinvent the purpose of the economy to be our collective wellbeing within planetary resource limits.

Look up doughnut economics for more on that. We need collective action that treats climate change as at least the emergency that covid is, AND realises that the changes and solutions will need to be socially just and equitable.

Saving the planet isn't convenient sadly. People take the easy option.
I've just been for a walk and was getting so angry at houses that have covered their gardens in green plastic. That buggers a few more sq meters up for the wildlife. Don't get me started on the local company that will clean and disinfect plastic gardens.

I've not seen the green plastic gardens.
How sad. Ive always loved all the bits of gardens, scruffy or not.
Paving over had become so normal this past 20 years. Is green plastic the next wave.

@UhtredRagnarson depressing isn’t it! I can only (over-optimistically) hope that when people are affected by flooding, uncomfortable heatwaves etc they realise that they had a part in it.

@chillied that’s not a bad idea - maybe there could be a thread for sharing tips, or ‘what did you do for the environment today’ or something

Its too late. I am saddened daily by how many of my friends shake their heads about the environment but will not make any changes to their life style. Simple things like soap instead of shower gel and bottles of handwash, dont buy bottled water, reuse pretty much everything etc. All small things but with a significant impact.

@chillied Yes! If governments, councils and individuals could take on board the Doughnut economic idea then I believe there is hope.

Currently our country’s success is only measured by GDP meaning how much money we have made with no regard for other areas of society that may be detrimentally affected by this growth.
With Doughnut economics every decision made HAS to consider how the environment it affected.

patty a long thread in chat would be good. We could add our positive changes and efforts towards greener living.

There does need to be a significant shift in mindset. We are so programmed to place our happiness and contentment in what we personally own. We need to adopt more of a sharing community, car sharing for example. Also the things we do buy need to be well made so they last and then when they break, are fixable and then when they are finally worn out can be dismantled and recycled. I

If we switched back to buying locally grown food it would help, just think of how many miles the food in the supermarket travels from, it's insane

It’s insane you don’t realise that transport is nothing compared to the carbon costs of food production in developed countries. Everything from machinery to chemical fertiliser to energy costs (eg greenhouses in winter).

Locally grown food has higher carbon costs than food grown in developing countries. Transport generally doesn’t change that.

If we went back to a simpler life, with less stuff and more time - to grow our own food, raise our own meat, buy locally and work as communities then it would make a huge difference.

Is that enough for you to be satisfied and fulfilled in life? I want to visit Japan. I want to eat mangos, and beef, and fish, and aubergines. I want to see the Mosi-oa-Tunya. I want to have children. As much as I know those things are detrimental to the environment, I don't think I can be satisfied in a life where I am a small-holder, never leaving my small town, never experiencing other cultures... Fair play to those of you who can sacrifice all those things, but I am not alone in finding the idea of that life entirely miserable. Fear of the future isn't enough for me to let go of joy in the present.

@ClarkeGriffin

This is so dumb. You know reproductive aged people were barely affected, right?

Yes, because we kept them mostly indoors. If we had not had a lockdown, not bothered with a vaccine etc and just let it spread around, mutating, getting worse, still fancying your chances?

We don't know if a new mutation in the future will effect fertility for example. They currently don't but will a new one? It could mutate in any way. People question if the vaccine will, but thats a different argument. People have gotten both vaccines and still caught covid. Young people are being effected by long covid as well, not just old people. To the point its starting to worry the government on how many will now be on long term sick, not working.

Well, when I look at Sweden, Florida and Japan, yes, my chances of ‘survival’ are still very, very good. Why wouldn’t it?

Mutations are generally weaker in viruses, not stronger btw. Basic virology. Virus actually don’t want to kill the host, it needs a healthy living host to reproduce and transmit itself to others. Natural selection favours less deadly variants as they are more successful in reproduction.

Also, long Covid is just repackaged post-viral symptoms. It’s nothing new or unique to Covid. This is just scaremongering and you shouldn’t be scared.

It's depressing, isn't it? The warning bells are ringing about the health of the planet but it's not filtering down.

Consumption of the earth's rss is still too high and population growth is increasing.

I keep reading how deforestation and killing/poaching of wild animals has encouraged the spread of diseases like HIV and the Coronavirus.

It was a relief to see the back of Trump but there are still other leaders like him who aren't interested in climate change. To make big changes, all countries need to be cooperating. It's going to be a huge task.

There will come a time, in the 50 years or so, when the oil/ gas reserves will not be able to sustain our complex societies. And most people just say 'oh we can switch to renewable energy', like its an easy transition

We’ve got something called nuclear power that is very low carbon (lower than most renewables) and can absolutely sustain complex societies to a high standard. Sorry to disappoint.

But it's not; renewables do not have the same energy output as oil or gas, in addition, they are unreliable. Think of solar power - this only works on a sunny day, so you can't predict how much energy you will get. Same with wind farms, if it's not windy out there is no energy

Absolutely agree and nuclear energy is the solution.

*If we went back to a simpler life, with less stuff and more time - to grow our own food, raise our own meat, buy locally and work as communities then it would make a huge difference. It's how our ancestors lived.

This is madness. Let’s just accept dying at 50 years of age or in childbirth. Or even worse, accept that half of children never lived to adulthood. Even 100 years ago, at least 10 percent of children never lived past infancy. How much suffering and heartache ... we take too much for granted.

People actually work more hours than 50 years ago

You can’t actually believe this ...