To wonder when someone will stop us from destroying the planet before it is too late?

[Ohdoleavemealone]

Last night I watched a documentary about how the biggest threat to our oceans is the fishing industry. Worse than plastics (and actually 46% of the plastic is fishing nets), worse than killing sharks for fin soup or putting animals into captivity.
The bycatch from fishing means we are killing thousands of species for the few we want. We have depleted the oceans resources and killed the seabeds with the harsh methods used.
Of course this is on top of our piles of rubbish, fuel polution etc.
We have been destroying our planet for years but have really accelerated in the last 50 years as corporate companies have no moral compass and the rest of us are just sheep. We believe that we need all the consumer driven shit they tell us and we fund the industries killing our planet.
So how does it stop? Is it too late? Do we just accept it or do we try and fight for it? Are we little people enough?

Full disclosure: I do not do enough on a small level to do my bit but I am looking for ways I can.

I watched this last night too. What an eye opener. I am already vegetarian but the amount of people who say they are vegetarian ‘but eat fish’ astounds me. Fishing is one of the worst industries! The fact that governments are instrumental in covering up the extent of the damage is shocking. I was also disgusted by the charities and organisations that are supposedly helping the issue.

Sustainable fishing? What a joke.

@littleredberries

Go vegan or vegetarian and cut out plastics.

😂

Ask yourself how uncomfortable you are prepared to be for the rest of your life OP. This will help you see why what you are asking for will never happen.

This is making me think the covid response was the wrong one we should have just let it go crazy and cut out a chunk of the world population.

God its depressing when you think about it. Fishing seems harder to control than any other form of farming / hunting/ food production. (Not being land based, harder to oversee / one country government to control.)

I think the question sadly is not when but if.

This is making me think the covid response was the wrong one we should have just let it go crazy and cut out a chunk of the world population.

Yeah it would have solved it. Its shit but maybe its natures way of getting rid of us. I wouldn't blame it.

@MargosKaftan

This is making me think the covid response was the wrong one we should have just let it go crazy and cut out a chunk of the world population.

God its depressing when you think about it. Fishing seems harder to control than any other form of farming / hunting/ food production. (Not being land based, harder to oversee / one country government to control.)

I think from a non emotional stand point that viruses like this are the planets way of fighting back.

It is interesting to see peoples opinions. Mostly people think we have no chance and I don't disagree. Does that mean we should stop trying and accept our fate or fight harder?

The vast majority stuck to the first lockdown rules really well in this country. The daily briefings showed that. Many people made calculated decisions based on their level of fear too. Even in totalitarian regimes, people will find ways to circumvent restrictions that are nonsensical unnecessary or barbaric.

I don’t think most people are pessimistic. Most people believe in the ingenuity of humanity to overcome these issues.

We’ll just get hit by a big ol’ rock at some point and that will be that

Which would be ironic given that man thinks he’s almighty with his nuclear weapons etc. Wouldn’t it be funny if after all these years of wars and bullshit, we go out in one go, like we never existed

There are too many people on the planet but in mainly western countries people have been hysterical about deaths from a virus, some people have now moved on to flu and how we are wrong to ‘let’ so many people die of flu each year as if death should be outlawed.

The amount of single use plastics produced in the past year in relation to the pandemic is appalling. The numbers of fish and marine mammals killed by plastic is horrendous but never mind, we need to keep all the humans ‘safe’, that’s far more important.

I think from a non emotional stand point that viruses like this are the planets way of fighting back.

The planet is not a sentient being. There is no fight. Viruses are just naturally occurring things. Like grass or butterflies. The planet isn’t fighting anything.

I am always intrigued when people say there are too many people on the planet. What is the maximum capacity of humans on Earth and how do you know this?

I saw a documentary recently where they cited a study which suggested that if we all went back to adopting the living standards/consumption patterns of the Swiss in the 1960s, it would have a massive impact on climate change/environmental destruction. I think on a personal level we all have to give up meat and stop buying shite we don't need (especially clothes)

I mean to say, we could sustain 7 billion humans if we radically reworked our consumption habits.

@Newrumpus

I am always intrigued when people say there are too many people on the planet. What is the maximum capacity of humans on Earth and how do you know this?

What they mean is there are too many other people to allow the planet to continually sustain them to the level of comfort they currently enjoy.

@ClarkeGriffin

Hahahaha.

We can't even get one island of people to obey simple social distancing, hygiene and lockdown rules. How do you think you're going to get 7billion people on board to stop going on holidays, stop producing plastic, stop using cars or any form of transport that pollutes, limit how many children people can have, plus many other ways that you would have to implement to save the world now, essentially asking everyone to stop being selfish?

It will never happen. Never ever. You're asking too much of people, they can't do it. You need to implement so many strict changes to save the world that it's not possible, and you can't half arse it like they currently are. You need to go full power on it, we've done too much damage now that small changes will do nothing.

Actually, if all the people self righteously preaching about it being “selfish” to not follow the rules put a bit more effort into living sustainably, it would make a difference.

Lockdown takes away a lot more than asking people to wash their laundry on a cooler setting, recycle more, use less single use stuff... People aren’t willing to do this but are willing to not see their family or socialise for a year?

But because people can’t see the harm right in front of them they don’t care

@Newrumpus

I am always intrigued when people say there are too many people on the planet. What is the maximum capacity of humans on Earth and how do you know this?

Sustainably? The carrying capacity of earth is probably somewhere around 2 billion. So somewhere around where we were in 1930. Some estimates however state up to 1 trillion.

How do we know? We don't. The world's ecosystem is so complex that we can only guess.

How do we (humanely) reduce population? Better access to contraception and education for a start, especially in the developing world. The UN reckoned that 350m women in the poorest countries did not want their last child but lacked the means to prevent it.

In most developed countries the fertility rate is already below replacement level and has been since the '90s so they are not themselves contributing to the world's population growth though the lifestyle of their citizens means that their impact upon the planet is vast.

Iran's policies halved the fertility rate in 10 years and were done without OCP-style coercion.

It is true that birth rates fall alongside technological advancements.
I suspected that nobody knew the real answer to the population levels although you are the first to openly confirm this. Estimates don’t all take account of the same things and are therefore biased. However, the world population is likely to stabilise with greater technological advancements.

Iran's policies halved the fertility rate in 10 years and were done without OCP-style coercion.

What are Iran’s policies?

The planet will carry on, long after we've been wiped out. Once humans stop polluting it the natural habitats will slowly recover.

What is truly depressing is that as a 34 year old, I learned about global warming at school. We learned about recycling and reducing emissions. Yet I see people throw litter, buy big expensive gas guzzlers, look down their nose at second hand clothes, buy more new stuff every year, go on multiple holidays on planes, eat copious amounts of foods. It disgusts me. It completely disgusts me and no, there is no excuse. People, not all of them, but enough of them... don't give a shit and those of us that say it is too late, we have to change are accused of fear mongering or being hysterical. It's over. I have a toddler and I wish to god we hadn't had him because I am honestly afraid of the future for him.

@UhtredRagnarson

Iran's policies halved the fertility rate in 10 years and were done without OCP-style coercion.

What are Iran’s policies?

In 1989 they announced that "Islam favours two children" and made contraception easily available. Sterilisation (male and female) was also made free.

From 1993 they withdrew all social welfare which applied to the third child of government employees (including paid maternity leave). They also made birth control classes mandatory for all would-be married couples (less use in the UK of course where the stigma of sex out of wedlock went generations ago).

Sadly a lot of this was reversed under the regime of President Ahmadinejad but in the 15 years it was active it did a lot of good.

Thanks @DdraigGoch. That’s very interesting. Any idea why it was reversed?

@UhtredRagnarson

Ask yourself how uncomfortable you are prepared to be for the rest of your life OP. This will help you see why what you are asking for will never happen.

I no longer own a car, when I did it was a 15 year old secondhand one which I only owned for a couple of years before moving close to work.

My phone is nearly three years old and still works well so I doubt that I'll be replacing it anytime soon.

I haven't flown in seven years.

My garden predominantly consists of a vegetable patch, not astroturf or concrete.

I'm not sure when I last bought any clothes. When were M&S last allowed to open in Wales? I bought some socks. Work did provide me with new safety shoes last year as the old ones were falling apart (I asked a cobbler but apparently steel toecaps cannot be re-stitched) Clothes are worn until they can no longer be repaired.

I buy local produce and plastic-free wherever possible.

I'm by no means perfect, I have vices. I do eat meat though this is from local sources which are generally hill farms run the traditional (sustainable) way rather than American-style intensive farming requiring vast amounts of land for growing fodder. I'm no obligate carnivore anyway, I do moderate it.

Am I uncomfortable? Certainly not.