If you're still sticking to ALL the rules/guidance - why?

[RaspberryCoulis]

Will start by saying I am not sticking to the covid rules any more. Obviously I can't go places which aren't open. But we have had people in the house, kids are going out with friends probably in larger numbers than are permitted, we're crossing local authority boundaries which is supposedly illegal in Scotland. Why? Because we've been in lockdown for a year, cases here are very low, and some things are more important than Covid.

But on every thread there are people claiming that they are sticking rigidly to every single rule and guideline, never breaking ANY rule. They would probably say I was a selfish covid-denier who was hellbent on murdering their granny.

So if you're sticking to all the guidelines and rules, without fail - why? People who are clinically extremely vulnerable (officially) I can understand in part if they're not vaccinated. But the rest of you? Is it because you're scared of Covid, or scared of your neighbours, or scared of breaking the law by mistake?

@LAgeDeRaisin

I don't need to take anything into account because I haven't made any claims.

I'm merely pointing out that picking one variable and drawing a conclusion from it is fallacious.

Yet you chose not to make that point with any of the others in this thread who have done the same... How convenient...

I agree that understanding basic statistics is key here. And most people don’t. Lots of very clever people don’t understand basic statistics. That is why the opinions of professional statisticians are more valuable than the opinions of people who don’t even realise how poorly they understand statistics.

I think it's because you have made a dangerous claim about masks being ineffective which has been universally refuted by the scientific community.

@LAgeDeRaisin

I think it's because you have made a dangerous claim about masks being ineffective which has been universally refuted by the scientific community.

universally refuted by the scientific community It's funny how that 'universal refutation' only came in the last eight months of 'science', the past hundred plus years where people thought differently, including the esteemed Dr Fauci, who is leading the US pandemic recovery efforts...

I actually never made any claim about 'masks being ineffective'. I merely said that Texas had lower cases and didn't use masks/lockdowns, along with Oklahoma.

But yes, you are absolutely right. Nobody, yes, that's right, absolutely nobody is allowed to make any claims about covid, until they have gone through 11 years of university and done weeks of research, considering all of those twenty four unique variables you posited, including calculating the weighting factor due to each and any possible interdependencies.

Yes, people can come on here and say 'Texas is doing better because reasons, totally unrelated to lack of masks and lockdown' and I can't dispute that, because I haven't considered all those additional variables, written papers, done 11 years of university... gotcha.

I actually pity anyone that is still vigorously sticking to these “rules” this virus is here to stay!

Almost all viruses are here to stay! Only smallpox was eliminated. But most viruses can be controlled.

No. Nobody said Texas is doing better for 'reasons'. They said Texas and the UK are not comparable.

You can SAY what you like, of course. But I don't think you should be advising people on what the population of a country should DO without all the qualifications etc that you discuss.

@ThePlantsitter

No. Nobody said Texas is doing better for 'reasons'. They said Texas and the UK are not comparable.

You can SAY what you like, of course. But I don't think you should be advising people on what the population of a country should DO without all the qualifications etc that you discuss.

They were saying that Texas and the UK are not comparable, because reasons totally unrelated to lack of masks and lockdown'

And since those reasons given were population density and climate, so yes, unrelated to lack of masks and lockdown'

However, you still didn't challenge them and ask them if they'd considered variables like 'cultural factors', something so vague it can mean whatever the author wants it to mean...

Can I please ask those who are saying "I am following the rules because I want this to end/ get back to normal"...

Considering this is all over the world not just UK - what do you actually want to happen?

• Cases drop to zero and we ban all international travel forever, ban imports, lorry routes etc.
• Cases lower than they are now and we then go in and out of lockdown forever
• Something else?

@LemonSwan

Can I please ask those who are saying "I am following the rules because I want this to end/ get back to normal"...

Considering this is all over the world not just UK - what do you actually want to happen?

• Cases drop to zero and we ban all international travel forever, ban imports, lorry routes etc.
• Cases lower than they are now and we then go in and out of lockdown forever
• Something else?

Vaccine lowers hospitalisation so we can follow plan to re open

@LemonSwan

Can I please ask those who are saying "I am following the rules because I want this to end/ get back to normal"...

Considering this is all over the world not just UK - what do you actually want to happen?

• Cases drop to zero and we ban all international travel forever, ban imports, lorry routes etc.
• Cases lower than they are now and we then go in and out of lockdown forever
• Something else?

To wait till everyone over 18 has been vaccinated before throwing everything wide open again.

Not such a weird idea, given all adults will have been vaccinated by July according to the plan whose milestones are currently being met.

It’s not cases that are one of four conditions it’s hospitalisation

I don't think you can't see a connection between a difference in population density making a possible difference in the effectiveness of mask use or lockdown @kellehi.

I'm not saying it categorically DOES by the way. I'm just saying I would need more than 'this completely different place didn't use masks/lockdown and their covid rates are great' to convince me that either is ineffective.

@ThePlantsitter

I don't know why we are comparing US states with the UK. Perhaps you could think about:

climate
modes of transport etc
population per square mile

And then you might have some idea why the UK and any US state is not really comparable in terms of the transmission of disease. That last one is the biggie.

This.

Especially comparing Texas to the UK. Population density in Texas is 109 people per square mile. Year round it's rarely cold enough to need a coat. Even in the major cities, public transport is only used by 3 to 4 percent of the population. A contagious virus that spreads more easily in cold weather isn't going to spread there as easily as it would here.

So lockdown until at least August?
How do you want businesses to survive until then and people to not see anyone else indoors ?

But it isn’t lock down until August.....the pubs and shops open in 2 weeks.

Especially comparing Texas to the UK. Population density in Texas is 109 people per square mile.

Your acting as though just because every Texan can socially distance a full 150m apart, this is reflected in reality. It isn't. 85% of Texans live in densely populated urban areas.

There are loads of laws I think are a bit stupid but I keep them anyway - or if I don't I expect to receive the consequence of breaking that law. I think cannabis should be legalised. I think 70 mph is a stupid motorway speed limit. I think public transport should be free. That doesn't mean I buy dope or go at 100 or travel without a ticket. And if I did I would expect to be prosecuted or fined. I understand campaigning to have the laws changed but I don't get why you would ask why people keep to the law. Surely it's obvious.

@Ninawest100

So lockdown until at least August? How do you want businesses to survive until then and people to not see anyone else indoors ?

Who is this to?

Which post is saying this

I love people's naive faith that if they stick to the rules, we'll be out of this quicker. I genuinely believed that first time round and we did follow all the rules, up to the point where I couldn't tolerate it any more and met my best friend for walks outside before we were allowed.

Community transmission is one small factor in the covid case numbers, most of it is through workplaces, hospitals or not controlling foreign travel properly. New variants which are more transmissible are another vector. I've done a year of this, it's not working particularly here in Scotland where harsher measures for much longer than England still seem to result in higher case numbers.

I'm not having house parties but I am seeing my DPs inside - they're octogenarians who love an hour away so I'm done with shivering in the garden, I'm letting my DS play sport outside with his friends as its much better for his health than sitting on his screen inside all day and perhaps most indefensibly I've started seeing friends indoors.

I have no faith that this will be resolved by July therefore I'm now breaking a few rules. Wfh is both lucky and unlucky- sure I don't run the risk of catching a virus I'm pretty sure I already have, but downside is I get zero face to face interactions with people on a daily basis. People weren't meant to live like this for a year or more.

@LemonSwan

Can I please ask those who are saying "I am following the rules because I want this to end/ get back to normal"...

Considering this is all over the world not just UK - what do you actually want to happen?

• Cases drop to zero and we ban all international travel forever, ban imports, lorry routes etc.
• Cases lower than they are now and we then go in and out of lockdown forever
• Something else?

Thailand, Vietnam, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore etc all seem to be managing.

Everyone lives a pretty normal life, and goes to gigs and big weddings etc.

But there is effective quarantine at the borders, and a lot less international travel.

I think I would choose that over the year we've just had and the year we are about to have.

Singapore pretty much literally import everything by the way.

We're not children, we know we can't stamp our foot and have everything we want at the moment, so if ever offered the choice I'd choose normal life but no international travel at the moment over a year of lockdown Hokey Cokey and two weeks all inclusive somewhere sunny

@Ninawest100

So lockdown until at least August? How do you want businesses to survive until then and people to not see anyone else indoors ?

If this is to me, then I don’t mean lockdown until then - just to continue to follow the rules as they are currently set out in the roadmap (hate that term, but it’s good shorthand) with gradual opening up until then.

@kellehi

Especially comparing Texas to the UK. Population density in Texas is 109 people per square mile.

Your acting as though just because every Texan can socially distance a full 150m apart, this is reflected in reality. It isn't. 85% of Texans live in densely populated urban areas.

In fact many cities in Texas are still mandating mask wearing @kellehi.

But that's not the point. You are saying that covid rates are falling in Texas, which is not making people wear masks (not true anyway), and that that demonstrates mask wearing in the UK is pointless. It absolutely doesn't for all the reasons people have mentioned that MIGHT be alternative factors in the dropping rates. There is no control case to prove your point because Texas is utterly different to the UK in so many ways. Population density being one of them (what EXACTLY does 'densely populated urban areas' mean when compared to the population density of the UK anyway?)

[quote SidSparrow]@RaspberryCoulis

I've not read much of the thread, but seen that the poll said 70% you're being unreasonable. So I just want to say to you, good on you!! I too am breaking the rules, most people I know are also breaking the rules. Nothing extreme but we have been visiting and are having visitors. I'm not sitting about having the government tell me and my family we can't see each other, having my children starved of the company of other children. We did our bit, but for me the pandemic is well and truly over. It's time to live with covid. The lockdowns do far more harm than covid. So it's time people learned to accept risk and start living again. And I am not waiting on the government to tell me that. History tells us that governments rarely relinquish power. That's a far more scary prospect than covid.[/quote]
Good on you

Great to see people congratulating one another for selfish idiotic behaviour.

For those who have decided the pandemic is over, I wonder if families like Kate Garraways would agree with you.

I love people's naive faith that if they stick to the rules, we'll be out of this quicker.

Generally yes, if the majority do we get a different outcome to everyone saying stuff it I’ll do whatever I want.