Je Suis Charlie

[JeSuisCharlie]

You have the right to be offended. I have the right to believe in what I want. We should learn from the pupils that we can be aware of differing opinions without the cancel culture
Join me if you agree with three small words...

Because Islam is a deeply authoritarian and conservative religious and political ideology?

And so are many political regimes around the world now and in history

And Islam is interpreted by yourself as being that way but to many it’s not

NEVERQUIT3331

My point was that an ethnic and religious minority person in Batley (the teacher) is being hounded out of his home and town and receiving death threats from "the community".

Mufti Pandor, a known antisemite and antivaxxer BTW, stood up and basically issued a Fatwa on this ethnic and religious minority man (the teacher), not only that, he did it "on behalf of the community". Even worse the teachers MP and the teachers unions appear to have backed the mob outside the school and the mob leader and criticised the teacher

It's an absolute f*ing disgrace and sets a very dangerous precedent

It's an absolute f*ing disgrace and sets a very dangerous precedent

Yes.

When you form a mod due to a caricature you lose any high ground.

I don’t understand why Muslims get special treatment when it comes to being insulted. There are many many insults been thrown at all religions all the time yet here we are again with the whole Islam is not allowed to be insulted or else.

@Flaxmeadow

Your route allows the goading of minority communities

The teacher is in the minority community in Batley, so in a roundabout way you're right. He is the one being goaded. He is the one receiving death threats and in hiding for his life

The amateur rugby player, a white man is in his late 20s, had trained to teach in the mid-2010s after going to university in the north of England, and lives in the area close to his Batley school with his partner.

How is he the minority?

How is he the minority

Because Batley is majority Muslim

@Alwaysandforeverhere

When you form a mod due to a caricature you lose any high ground.

I don’t understand why Muslims get special treatment when it comes to being insulted. There are many many insults been thrown at all religions all the time yet here we are again with the whole Islam is not allowed to be insulted or else.

How many times has that happened in a classroom?

Ewww mass is drinking blood and eating flesh.

Haha those dumb Christians.

If the bible was true, we'd all look like something form The Hills Have Eyes.

God is just a fairy in the sky.

This is all bollocks.

Images of stoner Jesus, naked Mary.

Why didn't he show the CH caricature of God and Jesus having sex?

And so on.

How many times do religions of any kind get mocked during lessons as a "teaching " moment?

@Flaxmeadow

How is he the minority

Because Batley is majority Muslim

I know the stats are old, but is he really?

Yes really. Batley is split into 2 wards
Batley East (basically Batley town) is 54% Muslim
Batley West is 33%

Just because his a tree archer doesn’t call for people to want him dead for teaching a lesson.

How many times do religions of any kind get mocked during lessons as a "teaching " moment?

He wasn't mocking though was he? He was conducting a lesson on religious extremism, terrorism and the media. But now, with this dangerous precedent, this subject will be off limits in Batley, and probably most of West Yorkshire.

This is genuinely frightening to me for West Yorkshire. That the Batley MP and teachers unions have cowardly given into the mob. Now a school is closed, a teache rin hiding and receiving death threats, and intolerant religious authoritarianism seems to be, once again in West Yorkshire, dictating our childrens education

Teacher.

@OhWhyNot

I agree with Brainwave89

And once again if the discussion is around freedom of speech why use Islam. There are plenty of other examples

And the use of horrible caricatures used for Nazi propaganda are we defending their right to use them no we are being critical of them

This is the same point - which is to make a point about the treatment of Jews by the Nazis, it might be useful to see the source material.

We had this debate forty years ago with Life of Brian and Christianty. The conclusion was the religious beliefs of others and their perceived offence taken was not a reason to censor or prevent people seeing a film.

That goes just as well for Islam, and I am suspicious of anyone who makes claims for the primacy of the feelings of religion against anyone who does not have belief.

They want special rights as they once had that the religious are better people. Well no, and thank dog we unpicked all that sweating in the dark that Larkin talked about in the 1960s so we could be a freer society.

A bunch of teenagers will not melt if exposed to some critical thought. It would help considerably with some greater problems with radicalisation and extreme thinking the more they are exposed to matters where there is a diversity of opinion and expression. Like I said, I am not for hate. But this teacher did not hate, did their job, and I would be happy to support such a teacher.

Instead there's a mob of religious wasters claiming privileges that undermine the basis of the freedoms of our society. They should not be allowed any traction at all.

Very well articulated @LexMitior - completely agree.

Imagine the teacher used the N word when teaching black history. Or refused to let pupils wear poppies during remembrance times.

Freedom of speech is not the same as freedom to offend.

Having said that, he shouldn't be hounded out of anywhere and ultimately the kids who had to be sent home are losers. AGAIN.

Do you not think Muslims have critical thinking skills or is this only possible if tested out on their religious beliefs

Why use Islam at all as once again the example. Muslims are often having to answer for someone who just happens to be of the same faith (but not the same beliefs)

We have an issue in society where many Muslim people feel marginalised once again using the CH and freedom of speech does not help

And as for radicalisation alienation and poverty is the bigger concern

What about looking at the policies of China or Russia if wanting to discuss freedom of speech that is very relevant

Or here in the UK the implications from the new protest bill

I don’t think anyone who decides to leave school when there’s a critical thought process being proposed has enough critical thinking skills or maturity to realise a basic truth;

Having a belief does not make you better, or superior to someone who does not share it

And the people who can’t get to grips with that protest outside schools because no one ever bothered or failed to communicate that.

@Flaxmeadow

'He wasn't mocking though was he? He was conducting a lesson on religious extremism, terrorism and the media.'

And the fallout from that teacher's choice of lesson is the best lesson in religious extremism that you could ever get.

• Teacher suspended and threatened with death
• Local Islamic leader (re)writing the school's own statement of apology
• The same local Islamic leader wanting a place for the protestors on the 'independent investigation panel' (his exact words uttered with no sense of irony
• Police not enforcing Covid legislation on gatherings (compare and contrast the police action at the Sarah Everard vigil) or taking action against those making death threats and naming the teacher in the media, presumably for fear of inflaming an already 'sensitive' situation
• A school closed and pupils and staff intimidated by a mob of mainly men, many with no connection to the school
• Threats that protests will not cease until the teacher is sacked

Have I forgotten anything?

If these were white neo-Nazis protesting their children being taught about the problems with with fascist thought and regimes or the benefits of multi-culturalism and diversity would the reaction be the same?

And am I the only one remembering a similar furore by another group of Muslim parents over children at a school in the Midlands beong taught about same sex relationships (at a school with a gay headteacher)?

And the fallout from that teacher's choice of lesson is the best lesson in religious extremism that you could ever get.

This is very true.

@NEVERQUIT3331

Also I want to ask people if you had a friend you knew that was vegan and they came to your house would you knowingly give them meat.

And if you had someone that was Muslim or Jewish who did not eat pork would you knowingly give them pork.

Of course you would not. Similarly with cartoons they are prohibited in Islam of figures like Prophets. So why are you trying to use 'freedom of speech' to offend someone. Does this mean you can never debate someone against religion? Of course everyone can have their own opinion. But if you do something that Muslims in general do not agree with (e.g. pictures of the Prophet) then really what are you hoping to achieve? We cannot kid ourselves and think that Charlie Hebdo care about minorities. They have targeted many and I am sure if The Sun or Daily Mail made headlines like CH this forum would be full of uproar as well asking for them to be removed/fine for the paper.

It is sad especially on this thread, we have posts saying men do not know what women go through. Everyone agrees with that no doubt. Men need to check their own privilege that is a fact. But similarly, the people who say this also need to look at their own privilege. They do not know what it is like to be marginalised in France, USA or even the UK. Men don't get to tell people what is sexist. Similarly, white people should not tell black people what is offensive and is not. If we believed in saying anything, people would still openly use the n word (white people). And as someone said previously, if Tommy Robinson or Nigel Farage was killed by Islamists, the hard left wing or anyone else would everyone else be saying "I am Nigel" or "I am Tommy." Of course they won't. Because you can be AGAINST both. Be against people like Tommy and Nigel. But they do not deserve to be killed for their opinions either. That is exactly the same with Charlie Hebdo.

This times a million !

Some excerpts from the statement given by the spokesperson for the Batley Parents and Community Partnership on Sunday evening:

“We believe that in a democratic society everyone holds a right to opinion and expression, however, we as parents and citizens also believe that with these rights come responsibility.”

“We as parents and citizens stand resolute that our children should be able to attend school without having their faith - which is protected in law - or their culture ridiculed, insulted or vilified.”

“Unfortunately unhelpful comments and biased media reporting that seek to hijack the issue have undermined the essential relationship between local communities and local public institutions.”

"Any and all such threats against the school and staff involved undermine our efforts and are completely contrary to our values as concerned parents, citizens and Muslims.”

I understand the teacher was teaching material which had been approved so I cannot see any basis on which he should be suspended.

@SwitchUp

Some excerpts from the statement given by the spokesperson for the Batley Parents and Community Partnership on Sunday evening:

“We believe that in a democratic society everyone holds a right to opinion and expression, however, we as parents and citizens also believe that with these rights come responsibility.”

“We as parents and citizens stand resolute that our children should be able to attend school without having their faith - which is protected in law - or their culture ridiculed, insulted or vilified.”

“Unfortunately unhelpful comments and biased media reporting that seek to hijack the issue have undermined the essential relationship between local communities and local public institutions.”

"Any and all such threats against the school and staff involved undermine our efforts and are completely contrary to our values as concerned parents, citizens and Muslims.”

Hmm. There is no evidence that this teacher either vilified, ridiculed, or insulted anyone. It seems that the child that left left before any cartoon was shown.

Its also not really worthy to point out that religion is protected by law. So is freedom of expression. What is illegal is religious hatred (note this does not cover ridicule, vilification or insult in of itself), and that teacher isn't anywhere near that.

I think the protestors should leave, and this concerned group can get to understand that they don't control the curriculum or how it is taught.

@Xenia

I understand the teacher was teaching material which had been approved so I cannot see any basis on which he should be suspended.

As I understand this material had been used for two years.

I don't understand why brains in Batley are so fragile that they can't be exposed to schooling, but of course, if they aren't they may choose to leave.

There's no suggestion this teacher agreed or endorsed these cartoons. Education actually means discussing ideas, and being critical of ideas, propaganda.

The people who are complaining about this seem to think education stops at 2 plus 2. These were teenagers, and teenagers are soon to be adults. If one of them has a strop at a teacher and says that they won't be in a lesson then this is not worth disrupting everyone else learning because some people are insufficiently occupied in life that they can hang around a school and talk about religious outrage they feel.