Why do we need a vaccine passport?

[Ladywinesalot]

My understanding is that the vaccine protects the persons who has had the vaccine, and that even after having the vaccine you can still transmit Covid.

So why all the cries to force everyone to take the vaccine and have the passport?

Flu regularly threatens to overwhelm the nhs. It's why the nhs is under more strain in the winter.

Flu is not nice. It kills many people and causes long term illness in others. Even a short bout is unpleasant. However the damage caused by Covid is in an entirely different league. There’s no comparison.
That said, the NHS would cope better with seasonal disease with more investment and long term, sensible planning.

You can tell me all you like that an annual vaccine every year for the next years of my life won’t trigger that cancer but until I see the evidence longer term I won’t believe anyone

What evidence do you have that wearing a hoodie doesn't cause lung disease? I mean no studies have been done on it so until I see the evidence I won't believe anyone.

I'm not worried about or scared of the vaccine per se. I am concerned about the implications though. Vaccine passports etc. It's all a step too far. We have never implemented this before for any other vaccine for diseases far more deadly. We also routinely "lose" sex offenders. Men who attack women are not given a "passport" to show to potential new partners to prove they're safe. There are far worse things than this virus which do not require passports.

Why are under 40s being given it? Why do children need it? What is the cost benefit analysis of this? People of that age should perhaps be given a choice but it shouldn't be forced upon them. They're deeply unlikely to be even seriously poorly with it, or to "overwhelm" the nhs.

I'm also concerned about the ever moving goalpost. I refuse to have the vaccine until some tangible form of real freedom is given to me. I know there are those that will argue that "unless you have the vaccine we'll never be free" but there are no real signs we'll be free if we do have it, either. Government powers extended for another six months despite excess deaths being below zero, barely scratching the surface of basic humanity to be restored from tomorrow, the constant threat of "new variants" as though the flu vaccine is ever 100% effective

"Once the vulnerable are vaccinated"
"Well once everyone over 50 has had their first dose"
"Ok, once the vulnerable have had their second dose"
"Actually maybe when everyone in the country is vaccinated"
"Twice"
"Hmm. Lots of variants. Once the vulnerable have had their booster"
"We don't know if the booster is effective against the new strain, let's wait three months"
"The booster worked well but there's a new variant..."

And on and on and on and on.

We're having less than 100 deaths a day. Hospitals are absolutely fine. What are we still waiting for?

@borntobequiet

Flu regularly threatens to overwhelm the nhs. It's why the nhs is under more strain in the winter.

Flu is not nice. It kills many people and causes long term illness in others. Even a short bout is unpleasant. However the damage caused by Covid is in an entirely different league. There’s no comparison.
That said, the NHS would cope better with seasonal disease with more investment and long term, sensible planning.

That depends entirely on your age. Covid is massively weighted towards the elderly and vulnerable. More children a year die of flu.

@boxingdayagain

It's absurd the idea that we should all be vaccinated. People are just so scared of it,

It's not absurd. And it's not scary. Don't be ridiculous. The positive and almost 100% uptake of the vaccine so far in the UK is testament to that.

The uptake is high because were threatened with exclusion, isolation and joblessness to name just a few reasons. And people are desperate. We're promised we might be allowed basic levels of humanity be restored to us, eventually. Just as soon as X number of vaccines are given. The ever changing number...

@Angrymum22

Rooner the most exciting thing about the Pfizer vaccine isn’t that it protects against Covid but that the science behind it will create a quantum leap towards bespoke vaccination/treatment of cancer and many other diseases. Maybe even prevention of the common gene related cancers. Scientists and medics are massively excited about this technology, it is a real game changer. I you were offered a vaccine to prevent your inherited cancer would you not leap at the chance.

Yes I would because getting an inherited cancer at 30 is not the same as getting Covid at 24.

I’ve had the vaccine - not in desperation that some here are referring to but to give me the protection from a virus which could make you very ill and to protect those around me.

Any country can set conditions for you to enter - some countries might decide you must have a Covid vaccination passport to be allowed to enter their country. No different from needing a yellow fever vaccination.

@Parker231

I’ve had the vaccine - not in desperation that some here are referring to but to give me the protection from a virus which could make you very ill and to protect those around me. Any country can set conditions for you to enter - some countries might decide you must have a Covid vaccination passport to be allowed to enter their country. No different from needing a yellow fever vaccination.

Needing a vaccine to go to the pub or get a job or effectively to leave your house is not comparable to needing a vaccine to go to a certain country. Are locals in subsaharan Africa expected to show vaccination proof before entering a building?

We live in the society, you have your choice but with rights comes responsibility (for your choice).
Holidays abroad are not the human right, for God's sake.

Btw. There are countries in Europe where vaccines for certain diseases (including chicken pox) are compulsory. Chicken pox may be not a big deal when you are a child but it has serious consequences in adults.

Soozi - I believe that care home staff should have to have the vaccine in the same way as DH, a doctor is required to have certain vaccinations.
Each country will set its own regulations. In some US states you have to have the chicken pox vaccination before going to school and nursery. Some countries could decide you don’t need a Covid vaccination certificate to enter their country, others may decide that you do.

@deragod

We live in the society, you have your choice but with rights comes responsibility (for your choice). Holidays abroad are not the human right, for God's sake.

Btw. There are countries in Europe where vaccines for certain diseases (including chicken pox) are compulsory. Chicken pox may be not a big deal when you are a child but it has serious consequences in adults.

Is that true? What other "responsibilities" do people have in this formerly free society for basic human rights?

Prior to now did we have to prove we'd had vaccinations for any of the multitude of diseases more deadly than coronavirus to do anything most people in a free society enjoy doing? Education, going to the pub, music venues, shopping centres etc?

Pre Covid how many of the parents in your group chat didn't want little BetsyMay having the flu spray? And what were the consequences? Despite flu killing far more children than Covid? Were they still allowed to go to school? Were they even ostracised by the other mums?

Even chicken pox is more deadly to children than Covid and yet we invite the infected around to infect our children. Not mine, mine are vaccinated.

It's a ridiculous, illiberal, insidious double standard.

@Parker231

Soozi - I believe that care home staff should have to have the vaccine in the same way as DH, a doctor is required to have certain vaccinations. Each country will set its own regulations. In some US states you have to have the chicken pox vaccination before going to school and nursery. Some countries could decide you don’t need a Covid vaccination certificate to enter their country, others may decide that you do.

Which jabs? Both myself and DH are drs and have not been forced to have any jabs. They have been recommended (for example hepatitis B) but not forced.

It’s because 1) the hope is the vaccine will reduce transmission - studies still ongoing but it appears to and 2) the more people who aren’t vaccinated the more the virus will mutate, so it’s better if the unvaccinated don’t move around much

A bit of simple reading would have answered this for you.

@SooziQue We're having less than 100 deaths a day. Hospitals are absolutely fine. What are we still waiting for?

It's "only" less than 100 deaths per day because of the current 3 month lockdown. We've only had half the adult population vaccinated for a few weeks. Infection rates and deaths were coming down from mid January onwards, at a time relatively few people were being vaccinated. We don't yet know for sure that vaccinations alone will keep numbers low enough, especially with the new variants, so it makes sense to ease restrictions slowly and adopt the "wait and see" approach between relaxation phases just to make sure that infection, hospitalisation and death rates remain low and that we don't start the exponential growth again (which is only stoppable by lockdowns as we've seen).

We're having less than 100 deaths a day. Hospitals are absolutely fine. What are we still waiting for?

In the middle of last summer deaths were down to about 10 a day. Not sure why you think the current death rate means anything, other than lockdown has worked, again, after several more tens of thousands of people died.

(I'm sure it's true that vaccination so has already saved a few thousand lives, but I doubt it's yet saved anywhere near as many as the current lockdown.)

[quote Kazzyhoward]**@SooziQue* We're having less than 100 deaths a day. Hospitals are absolutely fine. What are we still waiting for?*

It's "only" less than 100 deaths per day because of the current 3 month lockdown. We've only had half the adult population vaccinated for a few weeks. Infection rates and deaths were coming down from mid January onwards, at a time relatively few people were being vaccinated. We don't yet know for sure that vaccinations alone will keep numbers low enough, especially with the new variants, so it makes sense to ease restrictions slowly and adopt the "wait and see" approach between relaxation phases just to make sure that infection, hospitalisation and death rates remain low and that we don't start the exponential growth again (which is only stoppable by lockdowns as we've seen).[/quote]
Sure it is 😉

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m3588

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2652751/

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665588

https://pandata.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Exploring-inter-country-variation.pdf

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.604339/full

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/eci.13484

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84092-1

https://cspicenter.org/blog/waronscience/the-case-against-lockdowns/

https://c2cjournal.ca/2021/03/do-lockdowns-make-a-difference-in-a-pandemic/
[[https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ijcp.13674
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ijcp.13674]]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-lockdowns-werent-worth-it-11615485413

[[https://thecritic.co.uk/seven-indictors-that-show-infections-were-falling-before-lockdown-3-0/
thecritic.co.uk/seven-indictors-that-show-infections-were-falling-before-lockdown-3-0/]]

What kind of Drs Soozi ?

Please don't say medical. Your logic failure is showing, along with the memory malfunction.

I don't think we'll eradicate covid. I do think that the vaccine is excellent for helping to prevent transmission, although probably not entirely. It doesn't seem fair to have a vaccine passport system until everyone is offered a vaccine, or has been refused one on medical grounds. After that, I'm all in favour.

@JFCO

I have a friend who has had covid in mid January this year. Yet, she rang me yesterday and said she is thinking of getting the vaccine, because she wants to go abroad, when permitted. I don't get half-wits like her! Vaccines should be for elderly and people with compromised immune system. Everyone else should just get on with it, as mortaity rate is less than 1%. By vaccinating everybody, we artificially suppress natural process of virus evolution and that could bring new, powerful virus with the mortality rate of, say, 50%- what will we do then?

Glad I am not your friend if you refer to them as half wits. To be honest with your post showing such a lack of understanding i don't think it is your friend that is the half wit

Vaccine passports have existed for a long time and no one has had an issue with them so I really couldn't care less.

If people have an issue with vaccine passports then I assume they've been fighting to get rid of the other vaccine passports for years now?
If not, why not?

It doesn't seem fair to have a vaccine passport system until everyone is offered a vaccine, or has been refused one on medical grounds. After that, I'm all in favour.

The proverb with that approach is that by the time everyone is vaccinated, a lot of places that might require the passports (flights/hotels/bars etc) will have gone bust. Why not let those who are vaccinated help keep these companies & venues in business?

@CuriousaboutSamphire

What kind of Drs Soozi ?

Please don't say medical. Your logic failure is showing, along with the memory malfunction.

General practice

@RockingMyFiftiesNot

It doesn't seem fair to have a vaccine passport system until everyone is offered a vaccine, or has been refused one on medical grounds. After that, I'm all in favour.

The proverb with that approach is that by the time everyone is vaccinated, a lot of places that might require the passports (flights/hotels/bars etc) will have gone bust. Why not let those who are vaccinated help keep these companies & venues in business?

PROBLEM obviously, autocorrect fail

Which jabs? Both myself and DH are drs and have not been forced to have any jabs.

It's a CQC requirement for staff in all registered services to have the hep b vaccine if they are patient facing, and their hep b status monitored.

That depends entirely on your age. Covid is massively weighted towards the elderly and vulnerable. More children a year die of flu.

No they don’t.
www.statista.com/statistics/970800/influenza-deaths-by-age-and-gender-england-wales/