Why do we need a vaccine passport?

[Ladywinesalot]

My understanding is that the vaccine protects the persons who has had the vaccine, and that even after having the vaccine you can still transmit Covid.

So why all the cries to force everyone to take the vaccine and have the passport?

And why are people just talking about hospitalization and chances of dying? Those rates are very low but the chances of long covid are much much higher. The last time I saw it mentioned on the news a month or so ago the chances of having long covid were 1 in 20. That's a 5% chance of being unable to carry on with normal life, to work, to do much of anything. I know a couple of people with it now, one in their 40s and one in their 20s. They were healthy. It's not all about the risks of dying

The government and BMA are trying to clamp down on anti vax messaging. Looks like they should be looking at Mn.

Among the businesses I run there are two pubs. We won’t be asking to see vaccine passports and will be very grateful to just get people through the door again.

The idea is ineffective when so many businesses have been closed for over a year.

The link above didn’t reassure me at all and just confirms more research is needed.

I do agree vaccines are the way to go but we still need far more research before we can say they stop break variants or indeed are a good idea for all. It was months before the swine flu narcolepsy issue arose.

And what about usual flu? The risks are not much lower . Have you heard that the vaccine prevents long Covid??

We've been living with Covid lockdowns for a year, and have had (increasing) knowledge of the disease and it's effects for even longer than that. We have had difficult restrictions, miss our friends and families, have suffered illnesses and bereavements, mental health issues and our children miss their schools. We need to do what it takes to end this. And yet still the small
but vocal minority of anti-vaxxers find ways to infiltrate mumsnet and other social media platforms with their half baked theories, their quotes from dodgy YouTube videos and pseudo-scientists, and try unsuccessfully and patronisingly to undermine the medical and scientific community.

Is there a big WhatsApp group of them that text each other of a morning and say "right Jane, this morning it's your turn to start an innocent thread and turn it into an agenda item , and Bob you go in after and back her up" ? Honestly, this thread is a perfect example of it.
Who knows if there will be Covid passports in the future? It would be easy to do as each vaccine is lodged on a central database, so in the future there could potentially be a simple way of cross referencing the data.

In the meantime, Let's concentrate on getting the vaccine into as many arms as possible.

I like the idea of a vaccine passport. Say its in a restaurant for example, I would feel much safer going knowing all customers are vaccinated and therefore less likely to spread covid. Passports indicate the person is less likely to be infectious and less likely to spread it. I dont think the government will create a ruling on it but will allow businesses to have such rules. I bet places like wetherspoons will let everyone in though

Did you actually understand any of it @Roonerspismed

The 'more research' is the 'Kind Regards' of medical studies!

Ah! Another day with the anti vaxx stupidities, sorry, Gotchas! Which are, asu sual,anything but!

boxing, 3 little digits for you: ' 1984'

Vaccination does significantly reduce the chances of transmitting Covid. Not to zero, but significantly.

I am not sure that vaccination passports are a good idea domestically: if transmission rates are very low they seem unnecessary; if they are high, then indoor hospitality may be a bad idea anyway (though even in that case, vaccination may reduce severity). Also, pub/restaurant/ cafe/ etc. staff are not really trained in checking documents. and there would no doubt be a fair bit of forgery. But it should be up to the pub/cafe/ etc. owners.

As regards international travel, it's a different matter. Countries have every right to try to prevent new variants coming in. Much better to require evidence of vaccination than to prevent travel altogether for an indefinite period of time..

What about all the alcoholics, smokers. obese and drug addicts who self inflict their trauma that take up NHS resources?

These aren't contagious. You won't transmit them to healthcare staff or to other patients.

Smoking near another person can affect their health. And indoor smoking is now banned in pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc.

@JFCO

boxing, 3 little digits for you: ' 1984'

People don't read or even try to find out what is going on

@Sparrowcrane

You might be terribly mistaken in saying that your world will be bigger with the vaccine and COVID passports in contrast to those who refuse! Forced vaccination, and it is forced if your freedoms are taken away from you if you don't comply, and restrictions in human movements are violations of human rights. It's foolish to think that you will be granted more rights than those who refuse to comply because this is nothing but manipulations with our knowledge and perceptions.

This is nonsense. Going anywhere you like is not a human right. I don’t have the right to go into your house or most likely into your place of work (depending what you do). If I want to visit a country I’m not a citizen of, that country has the right to make me jump through certain hoops (most often getting a visa, but it can and sometimes does include being vaccinated against certain diseases that the country views as a threat), or they can refuse me entry altogether.

If a county makes vaccination a condition of travel to it, that’s perfectly reasonable. If businesses make it condition of entry, that’s kind of unprecedented but so too is shutting down vast parts of the economy for more than a year. Your notion of human rights doesn’t trump other people’s right to safety.

It's hard to have a rational scientific debate because there's no rational question to discuss. I could ask for proof that eating spinach won't make me shrink but I doubt you'll find any evidence to disprove it.

Viruses mutate in a host body. If you cannot catch the virus, it isn't going to mutate because it doesn't have a host. We get flu variants because the vast majority of people are not vaccinated against flu. If you are worried about mutations, you should get the vaccine.

There is no human right to choice free of consequence (there's also no human right to international travel or pub trips). No one should be forced to be vaccinated but if the safe relaxation of social distancing means vaccination then the government has to consider that. We cannot ask our healthcare staff to continue working at the pace they have been so you can have choice without consequence.

I think offering businesses the choice seems fair. If a pub has to close down for 2 weeks anytime there's an outbreak, it might not be viable for them to open without restrictions. If I'm taking a vulnerable older relative out (knowing vaccines aren't 100%) I'm going to choose the place that insists on tests/vaccines. Last year, my friend's nursery shut down for two weeks because a member of staff went of a clubbing holiday and brought Covid back. With everyone on the edge financially is it fair to ask employers to risk that?

The danger zone for mutations is when a small part of the population is vaccinated. Especially if it is the part that gets most effected. So I see it as we have 3 choices:

Vaccinate none - virus runs wild still and overwhelms our services unless we continue lockdown
Vaccinate those most at risk of death and hospitalisation- virus runs wild in younger, healthier population, no overwhelming of health service to begin with but perfect mutation conditions which could then bring us vaccine resistant and or deadlier strains, back to square one
Vaccinate most/all - services not overwhelmed, spread subdued so mutations much fewer, chance of returning to normal

I know which one I want and if vaccine passports help I'm all for them. They will also help keep those most at risk of spreading it out of busy areas. Win win.

[quote Tinydinosaur]@korawick12345 what other vaccines are we required to have to go to the pub? There's a difference between being offered a vaccine, and being forced to have one.[/quote]
No one is being forced to have any vaccine at all. Going to the pub isn’t compulsory. Same as driving a car isn’t compulsory and can be dangerous and therefore we place restrictions on who can drive cars.

3 little digits for you: ' 1984'
That’s 4 digits. If you can’t count to 4 then I’m not sure I’d trust any of your theories.

Wait till the anti-vaxxers and 'I've done my research'ers hear about evolution!

They're gonna be mind blown!!!

@JFCO,
@Tinydinosaur

The more this virus circulates, the more chance we have of it mutating into something more dangerous for all ages. The last mutations were more infectious and put more people in hospital.

It’s basic economics. Pub landlords have lost their income for the last 12 months. If they allow unvaccinated customers in and test and trace trace an infection back to them they will have to close to allow deep clean and for staff to isolate. In order to stay open and financially stable ( don’t forget once reopened they may no longer be subsidised by furlough scheme) they are not going to risk further business interruption.
As for travel, if you haven’t travelled outside of the EU you will be unaware of the need to vaccinate against diseases that are endemic in other countries particularly if your travel arrangements take you through other countries where there is an outbreak.
I am often surprised by how little common sense some posters possess.

"If businesses make it condition of entry, that’s kind of unprecedented "

Obviously it's unprecedented to ask for vaccinations, but they do set rules of entry and service, clothes, age, carry ID, height, pregnancy status (for activity places), intoxication level etc. We've seen nothing like Covid before, so the whole thing is unprecedented and needs an appropriate response. The human rights act has always had clauses in, which includes public health/protection as a reason to override the acts.

"I am often surprised by how little common sense some posters possess."

It's like people have blindly gone through life up to now and everything about this crisis, healthcare, infectious diseases, profit, manufacturing, testing and side effects of medication and not having 100% guarantees of medical matters is all new to them.

There will be airlines and possibly countries that will require proof of vaccination before you will be able to travel or enter certain countries. So prepare for this and have some form of document available as proof. Much simpler than seven hour queues at Heathrow or anywhere else.

Mutations: The more a virus gets the chance to replicate, the more chance there are that dangerous to us mutations can happen and get a hold. If people are vaccinated it massively reduces replication and thus mutation.
Vaccinations are still likely to have some effect on mutations, but maybe less than ideal. Hence the idea of 'booster jabs' directly aimed at common variants as they appear.

JUST GET VACCINATED if you can; it protects people who can't as well as yourself, yourn friends and your family.

If you want a vaccine passport, I can show you how to get one very easily.

Log on to this NHS website, follow all the instructions (you'll need to upload a photo of your passport or driving licence and let it scan your face there and then to verify your id) and once they've done all their verifications, you can access your vaccine record. On your phone if you download the app.

www.nhsapp.service.nhs.uk/login?redirect_to=index