By booking swimming lessons on ExH's contact days?

[selflove]

ExH and I have 3 kids, (aged 2,4&6). We split when I was pregnant with the youngest. Generally amicable and haven't ever been through court, all private arrangements.

I work Mon/wed/fri, so my kids are in childcare/school 8am-6pm. When we split, none of the kids had started school yet, so the agreed contact arrangement was that he could have the kids Every Other Weekend and tues/Thurs for dinner, which was fine by me, since I'd have spent the whole day with them on the tues/thurs, as I wasn't working those days. He's not hugely reliable and only usually manages one of those evenings, which I'll find out about an hour before, but they're available if he wants to see them.

My kids can't swim, they haven't ever had swimming lessons. I can't take them mon/wed/fri as I work til 6pm. I can't take them Saturday as they have another activity that day. I can't find any swimming classes available for sundays.

Which means if I want my kids to have swimming lessons (and I do, I think it's an essential life skill), the only days they can go are tuesdays or Thursdays. I have found classes with availability on both evenings after school.

ExH says I'm being unreasonable and denying him his contact time with the kids. I said he's welcome to take them swimming himself, he says this isn't the same.

Am I being unreasonable here?! And if so, what's the alternative?! I think him seeing them one evening a week is fine, it's almost entirely all he sees them for atm, but atm he has the flexibility of choosing between tues or Thurs, so he finishes early the day he picks them up for dinner (self employed). And he doesn't want to lose this flexibility.

[ButtonMoony]

So if he suggested he had the children every evening and all day every Saturday and committed to it I assume the posters supporting OP would be good with that?

Of course not. They would be accusing the "twat" (previous posters assumption having never met the bloke, not mine) of keeping OP out of the kids lives.

You have no right to determine what the children do when they are in his care and when I assume he has joint parental responsibility

[selflove]

@ButtonMoony

So if he suggested he had the children every evening and all day every Saturday and committed to it I assume the posters supporting OP would be good with that?

Of course not. They would be accusing the "twat" (previous posters assumption having never met the bloke, not mine) of keeping OP out of the kids lives.

You have no right to determine what the children do when they are in his care and when I assume he has joint parental responsibility

No, I'm all for that!!! I WANT that. He can have the kids every single weekday evening if he wants. Except one, where I wish to take them swimming.

It wouldn't be "keeping me out of their lives", it would be them spending time with him instead of in childcare. Win/win for everyone

[NoSquirrels]

@ButtonMoony

So if he suggested he had the children every evening and all day every Saturday and committed to it I assume the posters supporting OP would be good with that?

Of course not. They would be accusing the "twat" (previous posters assumption having never met the bloke, not mine) of keeping OP out of the kids lives.

You have no right to determine what the children do when they are in his care and when I assume he has joint parental responsibility

Of course not - but your hypothetical situation is completely incomparable.

[LolaSmiles]

I was going to say YABU but then I saw that he sees them EITHER Tuesday or Thursday, and he messes around with which day he feels like seeing them. YANBU OP, you've made options and he either needs to accept swimming sometimes falls on his day, or he needs to fix a specific day to see them.

Some non residents parents seem to think that their children fit into their life as and when it's convenient to them. Have they ever realised that most of us think about our children all the time?

[GreenGarden22]

@ButtonMoony

So if he suggested he had the children every evening and all day every Saturday and committed to it I assume the posters supporting OP would be good with that?

Of course not. They would be accusing the "twat" (previous posters assumption having never met the bloke, not mine) of keeping OP out of the kids lives.

You have no right to determine what the children do when they are in his care and when I assume he has joint parental responsibility

'Joint parental responsibility'..... so why does OP Have to take them swimming. Why not her ex?

He can't commit to his twice weekly evenings, he's already letting himself down.

If the ex had them most of the time, and OP was flakey then I'd expect the ex to be making the decisions on how best to schedule the kids time.... for their benefit.

There is no legal arrangement, so if he wants to be an arse he could go to court and commit legally to his custody arrangement. But it seems to suit him to mess his kids and OP around on a regular basis. So yes she should crack on with getting her kids swimming lessons, and he reaps what he sows.

[ButtonMoony]

@selflove

No idea why I can't quote.

If that is true and you would happily let him have them as much as he was physically able then he is a nob.

I can't get my head around any parent not wanting to see as much of their kids as they can anymore than I can a parent trying to limit the others parents time with them.

Unfortunately my experience is bitter Mums trying to keep the dads time with the kids to a minimum so if your last post is true I apologise for jumping to conclusions and ykunshoukd tell him to do one until he can be a reliable and stable part of their lives.

[thehairyhog]

@NoSquirrels

So in fact, OP, if he wanted to he could pick them up any day of the week he wanted to? He could message the childminder Mon/Wed/Fri if he wanted to, he could pick them up as usual on a Tues if he wanted to, and he could do the swimming run with them on a Thursday if he wanted to.

Set all of these very reasonable proposals out in writing, along with details of the weekly lessons you will be booking. Confirm that if not agreed, contact will cease on the swimming day. All other days still available. Ask him to confirm his position and invite him to take legal advice. Perfectly reasonable.

[FigureItOutNow]

YANBU.
I think you need a more formal, set childcare arrangement to avoid situations like this.
To all the posters saying she wouldn’t like it if he planned music lessons or whatever on her time you’re massively missing the point! She has approached him to let him know the kids need swimming lessons and asked him to either commit to taking them or to commit to a specific day (no longer have the flexibility of picking either Tuesday or Thursday, depending on what suits him ON THE DAY) that he will have them so SHE can take them on the day they aren’t with him. She hasn’t just booked them in and told him to take them.
He is extremely unreasonable OP

[BottleFlipper]

Sorry but YABVU, 1 to dictate and 2 because he's unreliable anyway.

[selflove]

[quote ButtonMoony]@selflove

No idea why I can't quote.

If that is true and you would happily let him have them as much as he was physically able then he is a nob.

I can't get my head around any parent not wanting to see as much of their kids as they can anymore than I can a parent trying to limit the others parents time with them.

Unfortunately my experience is bitter Mums trying to keep the dads time with the kids to a minimum so if your last post is true I apologise for jumping to conclusions and ykunshoukd tell him to do one until he can be a reliable and stable part of their lives.[/quote]
Just as an example about how I'm the opposite of "bitter mum", he got a new gf last year, she fell pregnant the first month and they moved in together, she is due to have my children's sibling soon. On Mother's Day, I dropped off flowers/chocolate and a card for her, to say thank you for all she does.

I go above and beyond to accommodate my children's relationship with them. All I want is for them to learn to swim.
The options I have given him are

1. he can see them ANY weekday. If he wants to see them mon/wed/fri he can collect them from the childminder. He only needs to give 5mins notice of this.
   
2. he can see them Tuesday OR Thursday (in addition to Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays), then I take them swimming on whichever day he doesn't choose
   
3. he can see them Tuesday AND Thursday, he just needs to take them swimming on one of those days.
   
   What he wants is to keep our current arrangements (I get an hours notice about what day he has them), which is no longer workable.

[WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants]

[quote ButtonMoony]@selflove

No idea why I can't quote.

If that is true and you would happily let him have them as much as he was physically able then he is a nob.

I can't get my head around any parent not wanting to see as much of their kids as they can anymore than I can a parent trying to limit the others parents time with them.

Unfortunately my experience is bitter Mums trying to keep the dads time with the kids to a minimum so if your last post is true I apologise for jumping to conclusions and ykunshoukd tell him to do one until he can be a reliable and stable part of their lives.[/quote]
Decent of you to apologise, but you could have just read her earlier posts

[leftistbimbo]

As you said he doesn’t actually stick to having them on his days YANBU, why does it only have to be convenient to him and not you? & Why should the kids have to sit at home when their dad is too busy to see them when they could be having fun at swimming lessons!

Making you fork out for all the childcare when you could easily swap days is very selfish of him in my opinion, especially as he is self employed and presumably sets his own hours. I think I would be looking into a more formal contact arrangement if he can’t compromise with you, it sounds very unfair on you.

[PandaFluff]

How would you feel if he booked horse riding lessons and piano lessons on your days and insisted you took them?

[Littlepaws18]

One of my step children goes swimming on a Saturday morning which we do when we have her. It's an important life skill and although it's annoying it's the crack of dawn on a Saturday, I absolutely don't begrudge it she gets so much out of it.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe]

I'm all for kids learning to swim as soon as they can because it gets harder (in my opinion) the older you are as you can develop a fear of the water.

Surely he understands this? He would want his children to be safe around water too?

I think the options you've given are really fair, OP. He either takes them - or finds some extra money to pay towards childcare. He can't have everything his own way and I would imagine that a Court would see the benefit in getting your children swimming over and above fitting in around his sensibilities.

[selflove]

Just to be clear - I have BEGGED him to do 50/50 contact instead of EOW.

Currently, with my kids in childcare mon/wed/fri 8am-6pm, I see them for approximately 2 hours on these days. And pay over 1K a month for childcare. His maintenance is £400pm.

If we went 50/50 on contact and he had the kids half the week, my childcare bill would be less than £500pm. And all I would lose out on is seeing them for 6 hours a week, the majority of which is currently spent in the car driving to and from childcare. I genuinely think this is a situation where 50/50 custody is in my kids best interest, but he won't have it, because he doesn't want to have to commit to set work hours, or a childcare bill.

This is not the case where I'm trying to take time away from him. He can have as much time with them as he wants. I just can no longer offer him the flexibility to choose on the day whether he can see them or not, to accommodate his workload. And the issue of swimming lessons has brought this to a head.

[Rainbowqueeen]

I’d separate the 2 issues. The first issue is his need for flexibility and willingness to see the children during the week only when it suits him. That’s not ok. As your kids get older they will want to see friends after school etc. they need a consistent routine. That is in their best interests. He is taking advantage of you and using you in order to increase his income. He needs to commit to one particular day and stick to that.
Then once that has happened you can book swimming on the other day.

[megletthesecond]

Yanbu.
But I bet he's a knob about it.

[Theluggagerules]

You have been more than reasonable. Book the lessons, he's being a prat and it's an important life skill for them

[2021isalsorubbish]

YANBU

[User5747384]

I think as he misses a contact time once a week due to being unreliable YANBU.
He can always take them and cheer them on, swimming lessons are only about half an hour it's not a big deal.

[User5747384]

I also think its particularly unfair on the kids he cancels an hour before seeing them.
I would bring this up with him too before he starts banging on about his contact being affected.

[Shoppingwithmother]

If he doesn’t want to take them swimming then I’m sure that if you book them in for swimming lessons every Tuesday, you will find he settles on a regular Thursday. Then you will have a nice routine at least.

I would only suggest that and say YANBU, in these circumstances where he could be a lot more flexible and helpful but won’t. If it weren’t for that fact, I would think it unreasonable.

I absolutely detested taking my children to swimming lessons. I found the whole thing so depressing - the fact that they didn’t want to go, the faff of getting changed, especially afterwards, the stuffy humidity, the mindless tedium...
If I were a good parent desperate to spend limited time with my children, then taking them to swimming lessons would be just about the last thing I’d ever want to do. However, in your circumstances I think YANBU.

[PandaFluff]

I think you need to alter the contact arrangement before you book the swimming. You agreed to Tue/Thurs so if that flexibility no longer works for you and he won't change it then maybe look at mediation? But until the two of you can reach an agreement on days, either formally or informally, you can't deliberately make them unavailable for his contact or dictate what he does on his contact.

(He is useless though)

[Pinkyxx]

YANBU - I had the exact same issue in that I work full and couldn't take DC to swim lessons in the week. Ex refused to take on his weekend so basically our child has had only 8 weeks lessons at school and can't swim properly at all. These things are part of parenting!