SERIOUSLY??? People may quit if forced to work from home, Rishi Sunak warns ?

[R2221]

No Mr Sunak. Working from home saves me 2 FUCKING HOURS of daily commute + rush hour stress + travel costs.

I work from home now. I am more productive, less stressed and happier.

I would quit if I had to WFH too. No need to repeat whats already been said.
Atm I'm three days office, 2 at home. Much better than all 5 at home that I have been doing.
I hate wfh and I'd go so far as to say if I all/most office jobs went to wfh as the norm I'd look to retrain into some sort of other role that got me out of the house.
Its just not for me.

I agree with this. In real life most people I know seem to be welcoming of more flexibility but are looking forward to being back in the office. Especially for people new to a career.

Yes this is the feedback I’m getting from my team. Overwhelming preference for a half and half wfh/office mix.

Everyone in my team is looking for a half and half mix.

@Eleganz

Sunak is thinking about all the Tory party donors that are also commercial landlords and are shitting their keks because companies are realising that the vast majority of their staff are happy to work from home a good part of the time (at least), that it is workable and so their office spaces can be smaller.

The idea that he gives the tiniest shit about the under 30s who don't vote Tory is laughable.

There had been a constant undercurrent of briefing against working from home by ministers and other senior Tories. As is typical for all such briefings, they are entirely fact free and are just parroting lobbyist copy.

He cares about the under 30s not spending a fiver a day in Pret or 15 quid a day on travel to get to work.

Working from home is fab! Maybe one day a week in th office would be good and I'd accept that. I'm sure most of us would be happy with a mix but I doubt anyone wants to ever go back to 5 days a week.

He cares about the under 30s not spending a fiver a day in Pret or 15 quid a day on travel to get to work

£15? Try doubling that (and some).

As someone said I don't think the issue is the office so much (although office politics is a huge problem, and some offices are horrible to work in) but the commute which comes from the concentration of employers in one place - notably London but other population centres too.

I've said this before in relation to house building - but we need far better investment in job creation outside those large population centres. I wouldn't mind going to an office if I had eg had a 20 minute drive or 10 minute to get there, but when you are spending 3 hours a day commuting and spending £4000 a year, you waste so much time and money that full time or near around WFH becomes very attractive. Plus the fact that commuting is bad for the environment.

There's no one size fits all solution and it's weird that people would think that there is. But employers providing flexibility and allowing people to play to their strengths, while rewarding output not bottoms on seats, would go a long way to improve employee morale and productivity.

One other important issue is to avoid a two tier system where some people work flexibly and others can't. It's more difficult to have flexible working in eg a shop where you have to be open certain hours and have people on-site, but it can be done to some extent . As an example, I saw a local shop advertising in our local FB group very recently for two new members of staff with hours set out. And I immediately wondered why they didn't recruit the two members of staff and then let them sort out the hours they wanted to work within the requirements of the business - so eg instead of saying person A must work Mon, Thurs and Fri and person B must work Tues, Thurs and Sat, why not say they both have to be in on Thurs and the other days need to be covered as they prefer. Eg one person might prefer to do Mon and Sat. Or you could rotate the Saturday so they both get every other Saturday off.

Sorry this turned into an essay!

He’s absolutely right to be worried about offices closing. The economy is driven by people out and about.

Offices closing affects all sorts of businesses, sandwich shops, coffee shops, good delivery places, anywhere that people would meet up at lunchtime or after work

@Flowers24

Working from home is fab! Maybe one day a week in th office would be good and I'd accept that. I'm sure most of us would be happy with a mix but I doubt anyone wants to ever go back to 5 days a week.

I don’t necessarily agree. There’s a decent sized minority that do want to work five days from the office. My employer has put no pressure on anybody to go in - in fact, they’ve said we should only do so if we cannot do the work effectively from home. Throughout there has been a core of people in every day - mainly younger staff, trainees, who just have nowhere to work effectively at home because they share a house / flat with friends or with parents and four siblings.

@Thepilotlightsgoneout

He’s absolutely right to be worried about offices closing. The economy is driven by people out and about.

Of course, but he doesn't care about people struggling WFH (or people enjoying WFH). His concern is the economy. That's fine, but the rest is just lobbyist bollocks.

@poppycat10 And I immediately wondered why they didn't recruit the two members of staff and then let them sort out the hours they wanted to work within the requirements of the business - so eg instead of saying person A must work Mon, Thurs and Fri and person B must work Tues, Thurs and Sat, why not say they both have to be in on Thurs and the other days need to be covered as they prefer. Eg one person might prefer to do Mon and Sat. Or you could rotate the Saturday so they both get every other Saturday off.

That assumes both would be able to do all six days as a starting point. You could end up with both unable to work on a Friday! It also assumes they can agree between themselves. Sounds good in a perfect world, but more likely to end in acrimony where they can't agree. Far better for the employer themselves to take control. I'm sure it could work where the staff are genuinely flexible and happy to cover the total hours between themselves, but I think more realistically you'll end up with one, at least, being a problem. Taking two random people who've never met before and expecting them to sort out their hours between themselves is more likely to lead to cat fights than a harmonious workplace.

It's really personal isn't it.

Personally, I miss office life but that's over now: I can be here more for my child, less time on a train, more time for sleeping or exercising. Much cheaper living costs all round. At a stage in my life and career where being at home is more convenient than inconvenient. But if I was young and single, I'd want to be in the office and would need social life that comes with work

I hate WFH and if it was made a permanent change in my job I would SERIOUSLY consider finding another job where I could work from the office.

I don't see how it is such a shock to some people that not EVERYONE enjoys working and living in the same space. Reeks of privilege!

I don't see how it is such a shock to some people that not EVERYONE enjoys working and living in the same space. Reeks of privilege!

Yes, it’s very strange.

Not to mention the type of poster who tries to to ‘reason’ others out if it.

You feel what you feel

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

Introverts versus extroverts wars. As though the world is divided neatly into two little groups, with poor 'introverts' the hapless victims of overbearing 'extroverts'.

The real world doesn't work like that.

Yes it does for many of us. Was sick of the office and the commute. Job is bearable and doable at home.

I’m sick of people going on about how important it is to get back to ‘office banter’ and ‘culture’ and ‘needing to see people’s body language’ and ‘water cooler networking’.

Bollocks. I just want to do my job and get paid. I don’t want to deal with you extroverts’ mindless chatter and messing around while waiting for meetings to start and (not) making polite conversation. If it needs to get done it will get done. Everything else is just noise.

It that is how you regard your fellow man, I genuinely feel sorry for you. And if large numbers feel as you do, I worry for society. How will we ever tackle the challenges ahead of us if we regard other people (outside of our 'little family' no doubt) as such an inconvenience.

"Of course, but he doesn't care about people struggling WFH (or people enjoying WFH). His concern is the economy. That's fine, but the rest is just lobbyist bollocks"

You know he's the chancellor, right? Would be pretty weird if his concern wasn't the economy.

@Moomin12345

What's so different about the office that makes a person so much more 'productive'? You can buy a cheap desk, a comfy chair and two screens.

Why should I buy my own equipment and, more to the point, where do you suggest I put it in my one bedroom flat? I have a desk that work paid for, it's crammed in between the sideboard and dining table. It's not big enough to have two screens on it and I have no room for an office chair so my already bad back is getting worse and worse.

For the last year DH has felt as though he can't sit in his own living room as I'm working or on calls. Work actually told us to remember calls are confidential. I just laughed, other than asking DH to leave the flat what am I supposed to do?

I am more productive but only because I'm working longer hours. I spend half my time answering Teams messages that would take a couple of minutes to deal with in the office. Everything takes longer to save.

I have no work life balance any more and I can't shut the door on it as it's in the living room.

How is this of any benefit to anyone, me or the company?

@UrAWizHarry

"Of course, but he doesn't care about people struggling WFH (or people enjoying WFH). His concern is the economy. That's fine, but the rest is just lobbyist bollocks"

You know he's the chancellor, right? Would be pretty weird if his concern wasn't the economy.

Yes I am aware of that. He doesn't need to hide behind disingenuous arguments to push it.

With a bit of organisation and planning, I expect most people could get the benefits of being in an office from going in two days per week (discussing work issues, social contact for example). Though there are far too many people who lack basic planning and organisational skills, or the simple task of being on time.

The Chancellor does not care about this I expect, just property values.

@Gwenhwyfar

Rampant - I've had everything at work from people who've hated me and bullied me to good friends. Only a small percentage of the people I've interacted with have become enduring friends, but that's life. Apart from the few nasty ones, all my colleagues have contributed something to my life and to my understanding of the world. That's not something I can afford to lose.

I think this is such an important point. The world of work is a major source of learning and socialisation (as distinct from socialising, though sometimes there's that too ) for us as people, as citizens. You say "that's not something I can afford to lose". I agree, it is is very bad for us to narrow and narrow again our interactions with other people to only those we exactly align with or who are our immediate family. Of course it is also bad for us collectiveky as we retreat into our silos and further away from the Agora

@RampantIvy

But most of us are also aware that the friendship only goes so far as the next promotion, the competition over holidays, bonuses, pay rise and so on...

It's not like that where I work. A lot of us are older and part time, and have no interest in managing other people. We haven't had a pay rise for years. We don't get bonuses. Our children are older so we don't need to stick to school holidays, so there is no issue with clashing annual leave. I think that is why our boss calls us the dream team because there is no competition, no big egos, no bitchiness or anyone trying to undermine anyone else.

I know it sounds a bit utopian, but this is why I love my job. I love the work and I really like everyone I work with. And given what I have read on this thread and many others I realise that I am in the minority and am extremely lucky. The only downside is that the pay isn't great, but everything else makes up for it.

You and your colleagues sound lovely and my workplace is similar. I do wonder if a proportion of the people who seem to find their coworkers so almost uniformly tedious, annoying etc might need to look to themselves. Ive always find that if someone has a problem with everyone, they are the problem

@Flowers24

Working from home is fab! Maybe one day a week in th office would be good and I'd accept that. I'm sure most of us would be happy with a mix but I doubt anyone wants to ever go back to 5 days a week.

And yet this is a whole thread with multiple people saying they can't wait to get back to the office ... Are they all lying?

@theleafandnotthetree Most of my friends have been made through work. I currently work with people who have become two of my closest friends and are the main reason I haven't left before now.

I can't think of anything worst than coming home, pottering around and watching tv.

For most people it's not just coming home, pottering round and watching TV after work though, is it?

Parents of young children are generally too tired to think of going out more than occasionally. Parents of older children may be ferrying them around. Perhaps I am doing the wrong job, but I find my job pretty tiring and there are many days that I don't want to more than cook dinner, put a load of washing on and sit and read a book. If I tried to replace the low level socialising that I get at work by doing things in the evening, I'd have to go out every evening and I'd be exhausted. Not to mention that DH might like to go out sometimes, so it would be impossible.

[quote PinkSparklyPussyCat]@theleafandnotthetree Most of my friends have been made through work. I currently work with people who have become two of my closest friends and are the main reason I haven't left before now.[/quote]
Agreed, it is similar for me. I also worked in places where I made no deep friendships but where I still learned a lot about myself and other people, where I formed connections in my area of work that I have called upon since, and where I was lucky to in some cases observe (in person!) excellent ways to manage situations and people. All of these have helped to shape me as a professsional and a person. There is simply no way even a fraction of this could happen working from home. It's like saying watching a David Attenborough documentary about the rainforest is the same as going there