SERIOUSLY??? People may quit if forced to work from home, Rishi Sunak warns ?

[R2221]

No Mr Sunak. Working from home saves me 2 FUCKING HOURS of daily commute + rush hour stress + travel costs.

I work from home now. I am more productive, less stressed and happier.

@Gwenhwyfar

"but you say it yourself... the issue is the lockdown."

Lockdown is making it worse, but even if not in lockdown I would not be going out meeting friends every night of the week with work the next day so would be isolated for much of the week.

It's your choice, and it's perfectly valid.

I normally only spend half (if that) my evenings at home and only so DH can go out himself.

I can't think of anything worst than coming home, pottering around and watching tv.

I really am not an introvert, and I need to see people and do things. The lockdown really is a massive struggle. I am reasonably senior and decently paid, but not defined by my job. WFH is still bliss.

My husband and I both can’t wait to go back into our offices. We’re not all the same!

If that's how they feel, what's it to you? Other people don't exist to cater to your worldview.

goes both ways...

@Gwenhwyfar

"I genuinely don't know anyone who didn't work from home after hours, like it or not."

Well I never have. I'm not a manager or a professional so there's no justification for it.
Retail staff doing rotas at home? Maybe managers, not normal retail staff.

I don't know what job you do, but even my tradesmen tend to have to deal with quotes, invoices and various paperwork at home after their regular work day.

Bigger companies can afford admin staff (who can perfectly do all the admin from home ) but smaller businesses can't.

If you are happy with an entry level role that's fine, my point was only that many workers have no choice but WFH at some point and the separation work/home is not possible for the majority.

And others need their time at work to escape the domestic violence

If they are living with domestic violence they need to do more about it than escape to the office daily. I think the same when people say some children need to go to school all the time to avoid neglect/mistreatment at home. Surely more should be done about getting them out of the abusive home altogether, not just in school/work hours.

@tentative3

I do wonder whether we will see, in the future, a trend for women to keep WFH to manage the school run/be flexible for kids off sick while men go to the office to 'concentrate', for which read network, and advance their careers that way...

Obviously I see the logistical advantages but I'm always surprised that the general assumption is that mothers would always prefer to WFH. For me, as the mother of very small children, work is really important to making me feel like I still have a separate existence and identity, that it's a space where I'm 'hardbackwriter' not 'mummy'. I'm clearly not unique in having that as part of my enjoyment of working, it comes up in every 'should I be a SAHM?' thread as an advantage of working. That sense feels so diminished WFH. On a more practical note, I only have regular childcare during my working hours so if they no longer involve any human interaction my life will be much lonelier even if all restrictions lift - I can't realistically just go out every evening to make up for spending all day alone and surely nor can most parents of young children?

I genuinely don't know anyone who didn't work from home after hours, like it or not.

Me. Partly because we couldn't take certain data home but also because if I needed to work outside office hours, I'd still do it in the office to keep the separation. On particularly "interesting" days I might be there until 6 or 7 pm but it never came home with me. As far as I know all my colleagues were the same.

I would hate to WFH. Aside from the fact that I would rather keep my work and my home life separate the best part of work for me is mixing with other people. Also, if I need to question something I would much rather be able to do it instantly by going to a person and talking to them. It's all about throwing ideas around, talking to others - WFH is just nuts and I would never do it.

I genuinely don't know anyone who didn't work from home after hours, like it or not.

Wow, if that's the way of working in the UK I'm very thankful I don't live there!

@RampantIvy How joyless. Do you really go to work determined not to engage with your colleagues?
It has been a good whole since I last had colleagues.
I was a sahm for several years then self employed wfh. I made the usual small talk with colleagues. I just don’t view work as a social opportunity.

Working from home in a tiny space that wasn't designed to be an office is not what is making me unhappy.

It's living through a global pandemic. Not feeling safe. Not seeing family and friends.

When things get under control and I can pop to the local coffee shop with my laptop and choose to work from there for the day, or I can finish up work and go for dinner with my friends on the other side of town - then I'm not going to miss the office at all. When I can regain personal freedoms and feel safe using them, then working from home isn't going to feel sad and lonely. I think a lot of people want to go back to the office because they're looking for any human interaction they can get right now - given the choice, in normal times, most people would rather travel to see large groups of friends and family, not coworkers.

@Hardbackwriter I'm basing my concern over the way my friends' relationships are set up. Almost all of them reduced their hours, in some cases very substantially, once they had children and in all cases the woman is the default parent. If it has always fallen to them to arrange their lives around the children I don't see any reason, sadly, to assume that this would change post pandemic in terms of who WFH and why.

Anecdata (and I think actual data by now) suggests it is women who have borne the brunt of homeschooling and furlough for child care reasons.

It's not that I think the situation is desirable, let me assure you.

I just don’t view work as a social opportunity.

That's fine, but remarks like this make those of us who do enjoy social interaction feel looked down upon by those who don't. Not everyone has had the opportunity to make friends where they live, especially if they are new to the area.

@Staffy1

And others need their time at work to escape the domestic violence

If they are living with domestic violence they need to do more about it than escape to the office daily. I think the same when people say some children need to go to school all the time to avoid neglect/mistreatment at home. Surely more should be done about getting them out of the abusive home altogether, not just in school/work hours.

Again, these statements really irritate me. Yes, of course we want people to escape their abusive lives permanently not just in school/work hours, but it doesn't happen over night. It's perfectly possible to recognise the value of temporary respite whilst still wishing that person could find permanent respite.

@mommin12345 - no because if you are WFH, you are still working those 8 hours, just not in an environment with lots of other people to talk to. If you are lucky, you have a DP you get on with also WFH all day every day to talk to, but otherwise, nope, its all day at home not talking to anyone else.

Going from spending the bulk of your waking hours in an office to a spare room can only decrease your social interaction.

Work might also not be your main social opportunity, but it is a place where people do chat to others and make connections. Some will turn into friends, some into work networks.

But humans are social animals. Most of us do spend a lot of time talking to other people, be it colleagues or other parents at the school gate or the person you go to the same yoga class as or the person you sit next to in lesson, or even the person you happen to be in a queue with at the bus stop.

Removing all of that low level social interaction has made most people a bit miserable. A few people didn't like it so are happy not to have to bother, but most people did, and didn't even realise until this year how important it was to them.

Well said @MargosKaftan. I find that threads like this tend to attract more introverts, of which mumsnet has a disproportionate number, than people who enjoy a bit of daily social interaction.

I agree too Margo

Who is forcing anyone to work from home? More likely people will be required to come into the office at some point.

I will never forget last summer and the poor decision making and rhetoric from the government.

-Get back to the office

• Eat out to help out
• Get back to school
• Get back to university

...After 120,000 people die

• How dare you close your school a fewdays early before Christmas?
• You have been mixing with people, stupid people. Stay at home! Don't go anywhere.

Good post margo

I hate that DH is WFH. It's invaded our living room and our home. Cannot wait until he's back in a proper office. Even 2 days would be good. Fed up of tip toeing around and all the tech junk

Sunak is thinking about all the Tory party donors that are also commercial landlords and are shitting their keks because companies are realising that the vast majority of their staff are happy to work from home a good part of the time (at least), that it is workable and so their office spaces can be smaller.

The idea that he gives the tiniest shit about the under 30s who don't vote Tory is laughable.

There had been a constant undercurrent of briefing against working from home by ministers and other senior Tories. As is typical for all such briefings, they are entirely fact free and are just parroting lobbyist copy.

I would quit if I had to work from home, my job is about interacting with people and the nature of what I discuss during my work is not pleasant for adults, my toddler is at home most of my working week with my husband or my mother, absolutely not ok for him to hear the content of my work. There are also issues around confidentiality that means I literally have to shut myself away at home, whereas at work I manage a large team have a counterpart I have an excellent relationship with, out office is open, noisy, full of discussion and shared ideas or assessments. I'd miss that a lot. I've been lucky to be able to go into the office a lot but with a very reduced staff even that hasn't been the same. I also don't believe the adaptations have led to our service being as effective and if we're not as effective as we can be people's lives are put at risk. That's a consequence no-one wants, so some people can stay in their pyjamas.

the vast majority of their staff are happy to work from home

This is a mumsnet viewpoint. Not a real life viewpoint

In my own company, only a tiny minority want to keep wfh. Most can’t wait to be back. We function much better when we’re all in the same space. I suspect this is true of many businesses.

@TheKeatingFive

the vast majority of their staff are happy to work from home

This is a mumsnet viewpoint. Not a real life viewpoint

In my own company, only a tiny minority want to keep wfh. Most can’t wait to be back. We function much better when we’re all in the same space. I suspect this is true of many businesses.

I agree with this. In real life most people I know seem to be welcoming of more flexibility but are looking forward to being back in the office. Especially for people new to a career.