Inheritance issues causing a massive tension in the family.

[ThornAmongstRoses]

My DH and his sister have no relationship with each other. It’s not that they actively dislike each other, it’s more that there’s just nothing there, just total indifference. They may see each other yearly at a family get together or something but there’s no contact in between those times, not even a text message here and there.

My FIL lives relatively close to us so is very involved in our lives (no problem at all, he’s a lovely man) and since he lost his wife (DH’s mum) just over 4 years ago we’ve taken him even more into our fold to ensure he doesn’t get lonely.

We live near the Midlands and DH’s sister and family live near Skegness. His sister comes down about once a year to see her dad and will stay for about a week with her partner and their children. FIL doesn’t go and stay with them though as with their two young children, and the fact the house is quite small, there’s isn’t really any room to accommodate FIL for any period of time.

Anyway, FIL has always said that when he passes away he would want his property sold and split 50:50 between DH and SIL.

However, last week he dropped a bombshell that he’s sold his house and is moving up to Skegness and will be having a Granny Annexe type Cabin built in SIL’s garden for him to live in.

We have seen the brochure for the Cabins and they are beautiful and cost about £100k to £130k depending on size and style.

We asked how on earth he would fit one in SIL’s garden as they only have a small garden and FIL told us that SIL is going to sell her house, and then he (FIL) is going to give SIL £90k from the sale of his own house and his contribution will allow for a mortgage big enough to her to buy a larger house with a big enough garden for his Cabin to be built in.

FIL’s house has already been sold for £250k and has said he will give £25k to my DH. The remainder will be used to give £90k to SIL (so she can buy a bigger house) and then the cost of building the Cabin.

SIL is waiting to start a new job which will enable them to pay the increased mortgage payments on whichever house they buy, compared to the payments they have for their current house.

My DH is quite upset as not only is SIL being given £90k, she will then also have a much larger house to show for it, and after FIL’s passing, a nice £120k accommodation in the back garden which will no doubt add a lot of value to her property.

DH is more upset as the 50% inheritance that was earmarked for him was mainly going to be for our children as we were going to put it into a university fund for them to use when they’re older.

FIL has also asked if he can come and live with us whilst everything “at the other end” gets sorted, which we have already said yes to.

FIL has got to leave his house at the end of April and has told us he’ll probably only be with us for a few months, but SIL hasn’t even started looking for a house yet, never mind the two months it takes to build the Cabin when the house has been bought.

It’s all such a mess.

There’s underlying tension brewing and I’m worried it’s going to cause a huge fracture in DH’s and FIL’s relationship and also that DH’s and SIL’s relationship will go from one of apathy to one of rivalry.

Are inheritance discrepancies a typical cause of family feuds? Is DH right to be feeling a bit irked by it?

Rather than the £125k that was supposed to be his fair share, he’s now getting £25k out of the whole £250k and everything else, in effect, is going to SIL.

Put aside the inheritance issues for a moment. Your FIL could effectively be giving SIL £200k+. He needs independent legal advice before anything is done as this has got the potential to turn into a complete shtshow. Who is going to own the new house? He will not be able to leave the cabin to your DH unless it’s in his name so there would need to be something in place legally to reflect that (usually something sitting on the ground would belong to the property). Your SIL cannot afford a large house without the £90k from your FIL. Think about that. They’re moving to get a bigger garden so the cabin can go in. £90k for a garden? Happy coincidence that larger gardens tend to go with larger houses for SIL & BIL . Then, your FIL is giving your SIL the cost of the cabin. It will not be possible to liquidate that money should he need it or should he die. A secondhand cabin may not be worth the initial cost. Even if it’s ringfenced and the money is left to your DH, that money would be tied up until the cabling was sold and removed from SIL property. Has he looked into deprivation of assets?! Has he discussed who will look after him should he need it? Will SIL step up or will he need to pay for care? Will he have any money left? Is your SIL prepared to sell her family home to pay for FIL care fees as his money is going to be knitted into their home?! Sounds like SIL has decided they can get a lovely house and FIL can live in a lovely shed in the garden (are they warm in winter?) but they get a nice new house*. No need to worry, or even think about, the possible financial ramifications. Your FIL will have no money or assets once he’s given the £200k to SIL.

I think I'd encourage him to stay up there for the intervening months just to "test the waters". He might find that life with sil nearby and your family not involved, isn't as sweet as he thinks.

He might be seeing more of sil but he's probably minimising the impact your family have in his life.

I would worry that your FIL will hand over £125k and your SIL suddenly changes her mind about the whole deal. You'll then be 'stuck' with your FIL because he won't have the funds to buy anywhere else, your SIL will know you wouldn't see him homeless and she's got a lovely big house.

Alternatively, cabins like that need planning permission, what would happen if that was rejected once he's handed his money over, doesn't sound like he'll be welcome in the main house.

This is why my DH and I have never, ever, counted on money from inheritances to plan for things like uni fees. When we get it ,it's genuinely a bonus but if we'd "counted' on it that would have led to resentment between siblings and cousins. No one has any right to anyone else's money. Your FIL's will could have left /may well leave 100% to charity. My grandmother left me £200k last year (even split with other cousins). No one had a CLUE how many millions she had, was completely confidential and no one expected a penny. If some of my cousins had known, I daresay it would have led to a bit of engineering/undue influence. It's such a minefield.

The posters commenting on funding future care home fees are spot on. This arrangement with SIL needs to be structured carefully to protect both SIL and FIL.

Surely he would be better buying a place in a retirement village with care facilities he could draw on if the need arose.

Have you asked why he doesn't invest in his own property near to her? I would be tempted to warn him of the legal complications of mixing their finances. What if she divorced and half the new property had to be given to ex son in law? If fil is investing in new property he should be on deeds to protect his investment. He needs to consider all sorts of possible situations. What if fil outlive dd and son in law inherits all her assets and tosses fil out on street?

My FIL lives relatively close to us so is very involved in our lives (no problem at all, he’s a lovely man) and since he lost his wife (DH’s mum) just over 4 years ago we’ve taken him even more into our fold to ensure he doesn’t get lonely.

I would be most hurt that you describe the relationship as close and yet then man listed his house for sale, sold it and didnt tell you. How much of an idiot would your DH have felt if someone had seen it online and asked how the sale was going. It implies to me that FIL knew what he was doing would ruffle feathers. Very odd way to behave. I wonder how he would feel if you did this to him and didnt mention anything. I think its his money to do as he wishes and he will regret the move (if hes used as free childcare and BIL is unpleasant). However hes made his bed, let him lie in it.

YABU. Your FIL is still alive. It's his money to do as he pleases, he could go spend the lot on strippers and the red light district he really wanted too.
Very distasteful to already of spent the money technqiually when he's still alive.

A lesson. Don't count on inheritance. His decision.

If he’s moving in with you, I’d explicitly plan with him for that to be time-limited whilst he sorts out a rental in your SIL town. Then you’re not trapped in an open-ended setup and he gets an input into the house, the cabin, doctors and dentists, the area and making new links.

This plan has disaster written all over it. If I were you, I'd take the £25k and put it in a trust for your children and consider myself well out of it. Though there may be tax implications for your FIL in handing over that amount of money to you so do encourage him to look into it.

There is a significant chance of the FIL and SIL relationship breaking down along the way or FIL eventually having to go into supported accommodation, in which case unravelling the situation might prove to be difficult. FIL is putting himself in quite a vulnerable position.

In theory you're right Bluntness, but my point was that there can often be a difference between what's planned and what actually happens

In fairness OP's said nothing about charging FIL to live with them, but for me the most pressing need would be some decent legal advice
Whether the FIL/SIL would heed it, or whether they'd insist "Ooooo it'll all be fine" (until it isn't) remains to be seen

The mortgaging bank might need to be involved. Your focus should be on protecting him. If your SIL is going to let him live there for the rest of his life, that needs to be a legal right. They also need to be careful re potential care home fees if he ends up not being able to live there anymore, eg severe dementia. So it all sounds quite complicated.

I think I'd be focused on the legal aspect - make sure he's protected to point I'd be strongly suggesting he gets indpendent legal advice and finding out local firms he can talk to.

You can't count on money before people die - priorties change carehomes cost a bomb and increasingly medical costs to avoid long waiting lists by going private may come in and it is a bit distasteful to spend money that isn't yours.

Might also want to dicuss a realistic time frame with SIL and FIL about stopping with you prior to building - and as PP says ask a lot of questions about whole think make sure he sees some of the potentail pitfalls and goes in with his eyes open.

I understand why your dh is upset about FIL selling his house without your dh’s knowledge.
That must be hurtful
However, I really have issues with people obsessing about inheritance when the individual is still alive. It just seems rather grabby.
However, I do think that FIL is out of order for expecting you to take him in when he didn’t even tell you that he was selling the house.
He could be living with you for quite a long while. So I think that he should have made you aware of his plans
The reality is that dsis will probably need to take on the brunt of care when FIL dies

Surely he would be better buying a place in a retirement village with care facilities he could draw on if the need arose.

He mentioned something very similar to this about 18 months ago when he was musing over his future, so when he told me and DH that he had sold his house (before telling us about the plan with SIL) we assumed he was planning into moving to one of those type of accommodations.

I asked DH why once the new house has been bought, why wouldn’t FIL go and live down there with the family whilst waiting for the Cabin to be built, but although we can’t know for definite, I imagine it’s because SIL’s partner (they aren’t married) wouldn’t want him there. FIL is only allowed to ‘move in’ once the Cabin is ready.

If I were you I'd advise him to take legal advice as the setup he's going into sounds extremely complex and he needs to know where he stands if the sale of SIL's house is forced for any reason (redundancy, separation, death etc.). It's easy enough in a pandemic to argue that nobody knows what's around the corner.

You're not being grabby it's the injustice of it. We had similar. We were nearer PIL and did all the looking after for years then suddenly we were told he was selling his house and giving the money to BIL and SIL who was going to buy a house for him in their childrens' names and he was going to pay them rent.
Do I think they had his best interests at heart- do I fuck. BIL couldn't stand him. They just fancied all the money. They thought if he lasted another 7 years or whatever it was they could benefit from a tidy lump sum. The rent was to cover the mortgage they'd have to get to pay for the rest of whatever house they were buying.
He got ill and they didn't do it because that wasn't in the plan, but the fact he didn't even tell us that was what was happening really hurt DH. I fully suspect another scheme at some point.
The lodge thing in their garden will be so he can't sell up and move back when it inevitably goes tits up if they all don't get on. None of this is in your FIL's best interests. Its all in the your SILs best financial interests. I would be desperately trying to talk him out of it.

It does sound like your FIL hasn't thought this plan through. If he wants to live near his daughter he could buy a lovely house for less than £200,000 in the Skegness area.
It would be a better investment and give him more security.
As for the inheritance issue, he could get married again and leave everything to his wife. Which would solve the worry about who gets more than who.

@Lolapusht

Put aside the inheritance issues for a moment. Your FIL could effectively be giving SIL £200k+. He needs independent legal advice before anything is done as this has got the potential to turn into a complete shtshow. Who is going to own the new house? He will not be able to leave the cabin to your DH unless it’s in his name so there would need to be something in place legally to reflect that (usually something sitting on the ground would belong to the property). Your SIL cannot afford a large house without the £90k from your FIL. Think about that. They’re moving to get a bigger garden so the cabin can go in. £90k for a garden? Happy coincidence that larger gardens tend to go with larger houses for SIL & BIL . Then, your FIL is giving your SIL the cost of the cabin. It will not be possible to liquidate that money should he need it or should he die. A secondhand cabin may not be worth the initial cost. Even if it’s ringfenced and the money is left to your DH, that money would be tied up until the cabling was sold and removed from SIL property. Has he looked into deprivation of assets?! Has he discussed who will look after him should he need it? Will SIL step up or will he need to pay for care? Will he have any money left? Is your SIL prepared to sell her family home to pay for FIL care fees as his money is going to be knitted into their home?! Sounds like SIL has decided they can get a lovely house and FIL can live in a lovely shed in the garden (are they warm in winter?) but they get a nice new house*. No need to worry, or even think about, the possible financial ramifications. Your FIL will have no money or assets once he’s given the £200k to SIL.

This

65? Could easily live for another quarter of a century or more! And you were counting on inheritance for the kids university costs??

Speak to him to gage why he went a to live there and why he would opt for a cabin in the garden rather than a place nearby, but your oh and you need to get this inheritance out if your mind, you FIL is very young still and much of his life to live as he wishes!

@MessAllOver

This plan has disaster written all over it. If I were you, I'd take the £25k and put it in a trust for your children and consider myself well out of it. Though there may be tax implications for your FIL in handing over that amount of money to you so do encourage him to look into it.

There is a significant chance of the FIL and SIL relationship breaking down along the way or FIL eventually having to go into supported accommodation, in which case unravelling the situation might prove to be difficult. FIL is putting himself in quite a vulnerable position.

This!

I can understand that your dh is hurt at not being kept up to date with his father's plans. I would recommend that he encourages his father to get legal advice if he hasn't already.

As for him moving in with you, and you having to give up your office and the kids their playroom, I think that you and your dh need to be really clear to his father about how long he can stay. I would be encouraging him to rent a property frankly, not out of spite but because he is going to impact negatively on your family life.

I can fully understand how your husband is upset at both your FIL and SIL.

I think the relationship with your SIL is worse than just apathy as she did not bounce this issue off him. I think there is a definite chance that there is a dislike / lack of trust from her side towards your husband and her not informing your husband about the plans is pretty poor form.

Was it her or the FIL that asked for him to accommodated in your house for the coming months? I suspect it was him.

I think her partner could well be now very nice to your FIL for a while as he is gaining big time from the transaction.

I wonder whats going to happen when FIL becomes unable to care fro himself - will he have any equity in the new house to pay for a crae home.

I don't think you are coming across as grabby, you would like fair play for your family and are also concerned about the outcome for your father.

@Teardrop2021

Shes going to be looking after him and providing care meals etc hes going to have his own accommodation, any hertiance would be eaten up in care fees. Sounds like the house sold very quickly before shes had chance to look at things are up in the air with the pandemic.

This. My grandmother sold her house and moved into an annexe with my aunt, funded by the sale of the house. She gave my dad and my other aunt cash from time to time, but the main bulk of the money went to my other aunt, which was only right as she had the responsibility. My grandmother never needed full-blown care, but my aunt still made sure she was ok and had her living attached to her house.

I was going to say YANBU and it sounds like he could’ve been manipulated but then I read he’s 65! I thought you were talking about a man in his 80s. My DM and DF are 65 and what I am going to do with the money from their house sale after their deaths wouldn’t in a million years cross my mind - they’re perfectly capable, healthy adults in their mid 60s who could live for another 30 years.

However I think you have a right to feel sad and hurt that his decision to move away wasn’t an open discussion with you and DH. I’d feel really sad if my parents just turned around and dropped that bombshell out of the blue.

65 is not that old. He could be living in that cabin in his daughter's garden for 25 years or more. I expected him to be older.

What is the plan if he gets tired of living in a caravan sized space in five years? What if he doesn't get along with her family at such close quarters? What if the kids regularly make too much noise in the small garden? What if a neighbour regularly makes noise outside and disturbs his sleep? He's in his sixties - what if he meets someone and she doesn't fancy living in a glorified shed?

I see a lot of future issues cropping up. And if he becomes too unhappy there, he'll only have one place left to turn...

Speak to him urgently, give him all the questions, urge legal advice. Surely it would be better for him to buy a flat in Skegness and keep his independence, and then consider Plan A in ten years if he's happy there and gets along with the family?