Inheritance issues causing a massive tension in the family.

[ThornAmongstRoses]

My DH and his sister have no relationship with each other. It’s not that they actively dislike each other, it’s more that there’s just nothing there, just total indifference. They may see each other yearly at a family get together or something but there’s no contact in between those times, not even a text message here and there.

My FIL lives relatively close to us so is very involved in our lives (no problem at all, he’s a lovely man) and since he lost his wife (DH’s mum) just over 4 years ago we’ve taken him even more into our fold to ensure he doesn’t get lonely.

We live near the Midlands and DH’s sister and family live near Skegness. His sister comes down about once a year to see her dad and will stay for about a week with her partner and their children. FIL doesn’t go and stay with them though as with their two young children, and the fact the house is quite small, there’s isn’t really any room to accommodate FIL for any period of time.

Anyway, FIL has always said that when he passes away he would want his property sold and split 50:50 between DH and SIL.

However, last week he dropped a bombshell that he’s sold his house and is moving up to Skegness and will be having a Granny Annexe type Cabin built in SIL’s garden for him to live in.

We have seen the brochure for the Cabins and they are beautiful and cost about £100k to £130k depending on size and style.

We asked how on earth he would fit one in SIL’s garden as they only have a small garden and FIL told us that SIL is going to sell her house, and then he (FIL) is going to give SIL £90k from the sale of his own house and his contribution will allow for a mortgage big enough to her to buy a larger house with a big enough garden for his Cabin to be built in.

FIL’s house has already been sold for £250k and has said he will give £25k to my DH. The remainder will be used to give £90k to SIL (so she can buy a bigger house) and then the cost of building the Cabin.

SIL is waiting to start a new job which will enable them to pay the increased mortgage payments on whichever house they buy, compared to the payments they have for their current house.

My DH is quite upset as not only is SIL being given £90k, she will then also have a much larger house to show for it, and after FIL’s passing, a nice £120k accommodation in the back garden which will no doubt add a lot of value to her property.

DH is more upset as the 50% inheritance that was earmarked for him was mainly going to be for our children as we were going to put it into a university fund for them to use when they’re older.

FIL has also asked if he can come and live with us whilst everything “at the other end” gets sorted, which we have already said yes to.

FIL has got to leave his house at the end of April and has told us he’ll probably only be with us for a few months, but SIL hasn’t even started looking for a house yet, never mind the two months it takes to build the Cabin when the house has been bought.

It’s all such a mess.

There’s underlying tension brewing and I’m worried it’s going to cause a huge fracture in DH’s and FIL’s relationship and also that DH’s and SIL’s relationship will go from one of apathy to one of rivalry.

Are inheritance discrepancies a typical cause of family feuds? Is DH right to be feeling a bit irked by it?

Rather than the £125k that was supposed to be his fair share, he’s now getting £25k out of the whole £250k and everything else, in effect, is going to SIL.

I would happily swap the inheritance i received from my parents if it would have meant avoiding a decade of caring for them. Your DH should be grateful that his sister is agreeing to be the main carer.

If things get rough he should still contribute by offering things like respite care. It is a big burden for someone to carry on their own.

And actually it is highly likely that care needs will eat up all you FiLs savings, even with support from his daughter. Your DH owes his parents to support them,. They do not owe him an inheritance.

@Rubyupbeat

He is spending HIS money on what he wants, his choice, his happiness. I hate all this entitlement to parents money, me and my sister would have preferred our parents enjoying their savings and property, rather than being Ill quite young and dying 8 years apart but unable to enjoy life. People can be so damn grabby, its bloody disgusting, it ain't yours and he ain't dead ffs.

I agree to an extent

However, one of the issues is that in this particular case, FIL expects his Op and her dh to take him in.

It sounds like you have rejected his 25K which must already upset him, so not sure why you wouldn't risk upsetting him to safeguard his future.

We didn’t reject it, we just said we wouldn’t feel comfortable taking money off him whilst he’s in the middle of this big life change. And from all the potential complications that have been spoken of on here, I’m glad we told him to keep it as it may be that he needs to hold on to every penny he can.

@Malteser71

I haven’t RTWT because, predictably, it’s full of frothing about you being ‘grabby.’

I think this whole set up is very odd. I also can’t understand why he’s effectively signing over the vast majority of his assets to your SIL, who has a partner that doesn’t like him.

I can understand why you’ve posted, I’m sorry you are getting a hard time, I’d have the same concerns.

Completely agree

I think you've made a massive mistake framing this thread as being about an inheiritance.

If you'd have started a thread saying something like, "FIL has secretly sold his house and is planning to gvie the proceeds to previously uninvolved SIL so she can buy a new house and he will live in a shed cabin in her garden" most people would have immediately seen the problem.

As it is, people are seeing the word 'inheritance' and assuming that you are just after his money.

Of course you need to talk to him about this!

This sounds like complete madness.

There are several things to consider here

Firstly, the money to his daughter to help with the new house? This needs to be done legally because depending upon how long he lives, there may well be inheritance tax due on it. 7 years clear from what I recall. Unless he is going to be part owner on the deeds, along with the amount for the cabin amount included? a percentage claim in their house would be a more sensible financial arrangement

Second - what happens if they dont get planning permission - its quite possible. Then they have a house and nice garden but your father in law has nowhere for his cabin, and not enough money left to buy a flat.

Third - is he expected to babysit? what if he cant cope or doesnt want to? A nice idea to see more of the children doesnt always equal an ongoing commitment to do school runs and get their tea and homework on the go every day until parents come home.

Forth - the cabin, if it gets built - Ive seen them fairly big, so size etc may not be an issue, and I can understand him wanting his independance, but it is always going to be part of their home, unless planning is going to include stripping off a section of garden to create a new property - which again might be worth looking along with problem number one above.

Fifth. What happens if he wants to leave. If his home is tied to theirs (with or without the money given earlier) will they buy him out? will they have to sell up? will there be a horrible legal struggle where he has to prove what he gave them and they say it was a gift?

sixth - what if he meets someone else and wants to remarry. He is only 65, this is completely possible. What if they want to buy somewhere together and he needs his money out. What if his 'share' of the house moves over to her because sadly something happens to him.

seventh - long term care. He is 65 and assume still quite lively. But 10 years on things may change. He may need care, maybe alot of it, and this will only increase. Is SIL willing to do this? He may find a cabin in the garden isnt suitable for someone losing mobility. Lots of people mix up asset depreciation and inheritance - they dont realise the rules have changed and now social services can look as far back as they like to see if he has 'given away' money to avoid care costs. They may not ask for it upfront, but they will place a charge on SILs new house and get it at some point.

It sounds as if his orginal plan to look into a retirement complex home down near SIL would meet all his needs whilst still allowing him to see/help with kids at his own convenience. To meet people and enjoy the area. And keep his finances simple

Jesus if my children were agonising over their inheritance while I was alive and kicking I'd disown the bunch of them. Your husband is foul.

I've not read the full thread but it seems to me that SIL needs child care to and a cash injection to move up in the world and FIL is the perfect person for it. If it doesn't work out she has a big house with a cabin she can air b&b then somewhere for her kids to hang out when they are teens. Win win for her. FIL is going to be the loser it seems ending up in a small cabin with people that only want him for what they can get.

I'm no expert here but I just wanted to say I really disagree with the majority of posters and don't think you are being grabby! I don't consider myself grabby in the slightest but I would be upset by this too.

Aside from the inheritance, I'd also worry that FIL might be living with you for a very long time. I know you said you get on with him but also that fitting him into your house will impact on your family. He'll be there until SIL:

• starts a new job
• starts to look for a new house with a big garden (could take months/years)
• buys the new house (could take months)
• applies for planning permission (could take months, if it's given at all)
• builds the cabin (could take months).

I think I would get DH to talk it through with him with the main focus being that you don't mind housing him for a couple of months but you're less keen for the above process, which could take years if it happens at all. Also that you're worried about him committing to all that before he's tried living in the new town and seeing a lot of SIL and her DP. I'd also bring up the inheritance I think - that you're happy for him to do what he wants with his money, but that it does seem a little unfair that SIL will end up with 90% of it.

Good luck OP.

Has your FIL's sale exchanged/completed? (I assume so if he's given you a lump sum)... if not, is there any way you could persuade him to put the brakes on? It seems a bizarre plan tbh.

@Needmoresleep

I would happily swap the inheritance i received from my parents if it would have meant avoiding a decade of caring for them. Your DH should be grateful that his sister is agreeing to be the main carer.

If things get rough he should still contribute by offering things like respite care. It is a big burden for someone to carry on their own.

And actually it is highly likely that care needs will eat up all you FiLs savings, even with support from his daughter. Your DH owes his parents to support them,. They do not owe him an inheritance.

The issue is that no one is sure if the annexe will actually be built. Op and her dh could end up as FIL’s carers

This does have disaster written all over it at the moment.
He is only 65 and grieving the loss of his wife. He could live for years and years.
I'm afraid it is just too big a thing to not discuss this fully as a family and also with SIL - irrespective of she is somebody you only see once a year. The ramifications are huge and the legal implications all need to be covered off properly.

I'm afraid your DH needs to step up to the plate and discuss this fully with his father and also his sister. The inheritance side of everything is literally neither here nor there - the chap is only 65 for goodness sake!

My brother tried something similar. Wanted DM to give him £250k so he could buy a house, using the excuse "it's a downpayment", the other siblings will have similar when DM dies. Urm... no..... nothing left, after £1000k per week care home fees.

It may be your dads money to do as he wishes, but it isn't right, and it isn't equitable. Would all pp's who have said it is his money, do the same to your children?

I understand your DH's frustrations but when people are still alive, their money is theirs to do as they will. I think your DF is worrying about the end of his life and this is what he wants to comfortably do.

My mum and dad have quite a valuable house that was due to be split between me and siblings in their will, but they took a huge amount of equity out of it. I don't mind at all because it's their money to spend and they should enjoy what they have earned.

I'm sorry but although it is disappointing inheritance is never guaranteed and should never be expected. Hard feelings over someone's money, who isn't even dead, is a bit weird to me.

Crossed posts with NettleTea's post but yes a major concern will be what if he wants to leave? (cabin is uncomfortable, SIL's DP is horrid to him, they expect him to do all the childcare, etc).

He'll be stuck because all his money has been given to SIL and tied up in her house/garden.

This would be my worry above everything else I think.

The man is not dead...he is alive, it's up to him what he does with his money! If he required care and went into a home, no one would get anything!!!

@Bythemillpond

Those telling op that she is being grabby for earmarking a 50% share of a house. What do you call the sil who is taking 90% of the “inheritance” before her father is even dead?

I think it’s £90k of the £250k, not 90% of the £250k. But either way FIL needs legal advice, as other posters have suggested. Re his £90k stake in his daughter and son-in-law’s house; then ‘ownership’ of the cabin on their land. Very messy. As someone else said, wouldn’t it be easier for him to buy a flat in Skegness?

OP, do you think your fil needs a 'bad guy' to stop SIL's plans? He may feel trapped, fearing to loose their relationship altogether if he says no. A meeting with a laywer and you having concerns may be his escape.

A friend did something similar for her father. They already had a house with a very large garden. It’s still took a over 2 years from start to finish before the cabin was ready for him to move in. He then changed his mind.

@CheeseCakeSunflowers

As the log cabin will be used as separate self contained accomodation to SIL's main house it will require planning permission. I can see SIL buying a perfect house, using FIL's £90K and then not getting the planning permission so it will be a case of sorry, you'll have to stay with ThornAmongstRoses and by then FIL will not have the funds to buy anywhere of his own. I think he needs legal advise to safeguard his £90k so that if things do not work out as planned SIL has to pay it back.

I confirm that it might be extremely difficult to get a planning permission for the cabin. Their planing application might be rejected and highly likely they won't persist and appeal or re-apply (unless they are in construction and dealing with planning applucations). So, the scenario described in Cheesecake post looks highly likely to me.

Also it's bloody infuriating when some family member suddenly wants to be involved when they get a snif of cash. For me it wasn't about me not getting money it was about some arse who was only there for the cash getting it. I would have rathered it go in a bon fire than that person.

@BigWoollyJumpers it's both though. I say it's his money but would also not do that to my children unless their lifestyles who hugely unequal, and even then I'm not sure. Still, I'm not the OP's FIL and it really is his right to use his money while alive as he wants.

Are you really all that concerned about your FIL? It seems odd that this is now your priority, but in your first post, there was no mention of “being concerned” about your FIL being manipulated by his daughter or the legal implications of this plan. In your OP, you only mention that you and your DH were angry/upset about FIL depreciating his fixed and cash assets, meaning your DH stood to inherit less than you had thought/planned- all this before he has even passed away (the whole idea of having eyed up and felt entitled to the money, let alone planned how to spend it, whilst he’s still alive is pretty grim, in my opinion).

I can see why it could seem unfair that SIL gets more money than DH, but if FIL is living far away from you, she’ll have to do the majority of any support he needs. Especially if he’s living in a cabin in her garden. I don’t think it’s the best idea- seems lots of things could go wrong- but if they are going to do it, he needs to make sure his interests are protected- e.g. right to stay in the cabin, what would happen if house had to be sold (for instance, if SIL lost her job sbd could not pay the mortgage) and so on.

So, I think if your primary concern is your FIL and not the inheritance, suggest he seek legal advice regarding all the potential ramifications of the current plan, and to advise on how he can safeguard himself (e.g. ensure he could not be forced to leave/had residency rights/what would happen if SIL ever had to/chose to sell the house etc). You could suggest he buy a small bungalow close to his daughter if he wants to retire to the coast near to her. Once that is done, you should accept his decision with grace, even if you don’t agree it’s the best idea or what you would like to happen.

Is the main concern that SIL might be screwing over FIL or is it husband getting less inheritance in the future than SIL?

Would you be equally concerned if he was giving you £125k cash and still be doing a similar arrangement or would you in that case be putting up a bon voyage sign?

If the inheritance aspect is secondary then I would bring this up to FIL. No need to mention inheritance but talk about legally protecting himself and going through the proper channels. Since SIL is not married to her partner it would be good to make sure that he isn't entitled to everything.
There is a good chance that SIL won't take care of her dad in old age so if possible such thing should be agreed etc. It doesn't matter if he will get upset. If he still wants to go in blind, then at least you have warned him.