To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

Itsa, I really really don't misunderstand. I have read contract lawyers insisting the EU are correct and AZ are breaking their contract. Others who insist UK/AZ are correct. A court case would be needed to get a definitive answer. I'm certainly not going to take your word for it. Their are 2 sides to this and the UK citizens are only seeing one side presented in the media.

Sorry, that was for @MarshaBradyo who asked about what effectively amounts to a US 'America First' export ban on vaccines and materials used in their manufacture.

Biden is invoking the Defence Production Act.

Apparently the AZ contract with the EU states that they have no other contacts which will prevent them from meeting their EU obligations, which is obviously a lie. A lot of the contract is not public.

@Itsalonghaul

fly You clearly have no idea about contractual law in the EU.

You can't force any private company to hand over their supplies, you can't requisition factories and take them over at will. VDL has unearthed a very old article used in the 1970s, it is unheard of in modern times to even consider this action.

You seem to misunderstand the issues. That is precisely what Italy/EU have done to Australia, they have seized vaccines bought and paid for at the ports. That is precisely what they are doing. Taking vaccines (stealing basically)

Your post reminds of the great quote: If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it's just possible you haven't grasped the situation.

From your post, I'm guessing you're not a lawyer either! This has nothing to do with contract law. The EU Council has an overarching power under art 122 to prevent exports.It is hardly surprising that it is "unheard of in modern times" to exercise the art 122 power - it applies only in cases of "severe difficulties". Such as a pandemic.

Re the OP, this has nothing to do with Brexit, though obviously, in the absence of any tangible Brexit-related benefit, it is being spun that way by the government.

AZ have badly let down the EU, and none of us will benefit if the vaccination drive in European states doesn't get up to speed.

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

Not all the AZ vaccines used in the UK are made in the UK. Those which are, are reliant on large supply chains that are from outside the UK.

That's not what PP said though. They said AZ vaccines were not manufactured in the UK. Which is incorrect

Was the posters list a reply to a statement that the UK were self-sufficient in all these things?

It would be important to clarify that 'some' of the AZ vaccines used in the UK are manufactured in the UK and reliant on imported materials. Others finished AZ vaccines used in the UK are imported.

This is the global picture.

man You are incorrect on this. The contract with AZ and the UK is by far superior to the one made with the EU. At the time the EU did not rush to sign the contracts in a timely fashion, and they choose a 'best efforts' contract. So of course AZ will deliver vaccines according to the contracts they have signed with different countries, just as they normally would.

Exercising old articles to try and force private companies to breach their own contracts is appalling.

Ok so the EU can implement an export ban of the vaccines. But can it requisition those vaccines (which are contractually owned by another country) for its own use? For example, it blocked the vaccines to Australia, but has the EU physically taken the vaccines for its own use?

Secondly, survey of trust in AZ vaccine is at a low (and has dropped from previous) so is the EU confident that people are going to actually take this vaccine?

www.politico.eu/article/trust-oxford-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-wanes-europe-survey/

If the EU choose not to vaccinate their countries then that is a matter for them, we will continue to crack on here in the UK and get back to normal. If the EU prefer to continue to create chaos and drama over vaccines, well they will have to live with the consqeuences!

I feel sorry for the poor people on the ground who no doubt just want a vaccine, any vaccine so do not have to suffer the horrendous suffering that is covid end of life. It is an utter disgrace. And god only knows how they will feel in the peak, it was bad enough here and we knew our government was doing all it could to help get the vaccine to us. I would have been incandescent if they had anything else.

A lot of anger is going to boil over in Europe in the coming months, and it won't be aimed at us.

**done

I see Daily Mail readership is increasing.

You lot really do swallow whatever shit is in your newspapers. Its hilarious.

A delay in the vaccination supply in the UK may be on it's way. The issues I mentioned about the US export ban has a bearing on this.

... an internal letter from NHS England to vaccination venues had just emerged, warning staff of “a significant reduction in weekly supply available from manufacturers beginning in the week commencing March 29, meaning volumes for first doses will be significantly constrained.”

Later that day, Matt Hancock told the House of Commons in a statement: “We have a delay in a scheduled arrival from the Serum Institute of India.”

He added that the UK authorities were also retesting a batch of 1.7 million doses already in the country to check its stability, adding to the delays.

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-what-is-happening-with-britains-vaccine-supply

@HotCrossBumsticks

I see Daily Mail readership is increasing.

You lot really do swallow whatever shit is in your newspapers. Its hilarious.

Give us your version. Which country are you in?

AZ have badly let down the EU, and none of us will benefit if the vaccination drive in European states doesn't get up to speed.

How many AZ doses are unused in EU and what is causing that?

I thought Brexit was a terrible mistake, and in the main, I still do. However, the EU and especially UVdL have shown themselves in a terrible light and opened my eyes further to the inefficiencies and bullying nature of the EU.

Of course I can see the problems and how it is perceived from an EU point of view. But Britain heavily invested and reacted faster initially. We spread our bets across many possibilities not knowing which ones were going to "come good". Just look at the situation with the French forerunner that France had been banking on.

We then signed contracts 3 months before the EU. We also inserted tighter clauses within our contracts. These two facts are the crux of the matter. We were more nimble, more risk taking at the outset and faster and inserted a specific clause that AZ needed to fulfil our obligations first. (at least this is my understanding of the situation.)

UVdL does not have an impressive track record back at home and certainly has not covered herself in glory over this. But I can obviously see that the EU now feels that it is not being fairly treated due to some of the production problems and delivery supply. But this is a private matter between them and a private company that is manufacturing the vaccine at cost. The EU citizens are looking on aghast at what is happening. Then add into the mix the posturing and mis information regarding safety, efficacy etc of AZ, sitting on millions of unused vaccines and it all just gets much much worse.

Compare this to the UK speeding through its vaccine programme at an impressive rate (I've already had my first dose and the set up was efficient and impressive) and they hate us even more. They already hate us for Brexit, they certainly don't wish us to succeed and the first test after Brexit shows the UK in a very favourable light and the EU in a poor light in terms of efficiency in vaccinating its people.

But we do need the EU to catch up with their own vaccination programme. They have given terrible mixed messages regarding safety and this is very damaging. The World is only going to get better and be safer going forward when people have been vaccinated.

In terms of other trade I still think that leaving the EU is a mess. But obviously in terms of the vaccination programme I think differently and I have to confess to being slightly less pro EU than I was prior to this unedifying behaviour.

i.e. The Serum Institute of India is experiencing sourcing materials from the US because Biden has introduced an effective export ban. The SII then have difficult making the amount of AZ vaccines which they supply the UK with. Ergo, a delay in the UK vaccinations.

I don't think the bitterness displayed uniquely towards the EU member states is entirely honestly related to the vaccine issue. If it is, it is misplaced as the US is having a larger impact on the reduction in UK vaccine supplies, with an export ban that is already in place

SII experiencing difficulty sourcing materials from the US ... .

Don't see anything especially shocking about the EU protecting its own interests.

cail I haven't witnessed any bitterness from the UK to member states at all, only towards VDL whom has behaved in a disgraceful manner.

The EU member states have nothing but sympathy from us. We know what is coming with the third wave and the more infectious variant, and would not wish anyone, but particularly not our friends.

Even if billions vaccines arrived today, it is not going to change anything now. The EU vaccine roll out needed to start with robust vigour back in January to avoid the third wave. The commission missed the opportunity and are looking for someone to blame, but that blame is squarely on the commission and certainly not the fault of member states that simply put their trust in the commission to deliver.

Some leaders are electioneering and trying to deflect from their abysmal vaccine (lack of) organisational rollout Very few western governments seem to have covered themselves in glory over Covid, ours included, but they have saved their bacon with their vaccination program

And I don't think Brexit has fucked up the UK economy, I think Covid has fucked up the world economy, including the EU. Until the pandemic is under control worldwide, no economy (apart from China) can flourish. Brexit is an irrelevance at the moment

And I don't think Brexit has fucked up the UK economy, I think Covid has fucked up the world economy, including the EU

Lol. Wrong.

@dontsaveusername

And I don't think Brexit has fucked up the UK economy, I think Covid has fucked up the world economy, including the EU. Until the pandemic is under control worldwide, no economy (apart from China) can flourish. Brexit is an irrelevance at the moment

You might have a point, but I think "Brexit is an irrelevance at the moment" is not true. Like it or not, Brexit is a factor.

When Britain begins to "go it alone" it's in the context of worldwide pandemic. Brexit is new. And to the modern world, a pandemic is new too.

It's a time of uncertainty anyway. Add Brexit to the mix and makes things a bit more precarious. There are advantages too, part of the reason Britain signed up so fast for the vaccine was a side effect of Brexit.

It's uncertain how this will play out.

This time last year people were referencing the wars, forgetting that Britain didn't win the wars on its own. Short memories.

@Moomin12345

Yawn.

Oh look. We've found the deep thinker on the thread.

🏆

Countries such as Italy were in absolute dire straits before covid was even a word. And Spain, and many other med countries. The economic fall out will follow the third wave when another summer is lost, and the full impact of the downturn will be known. We haven't even began to assess the damage to the world economy, which is another reason why the vaccines are so damn important.

@Itsalonghaul

cail I haven't witnessed any bitterness from the UK to member states at all, only towards VDL whom has behaved in a disgraceful manner.

The EU member states have nothing but sympathy from us. We know what is coming with the third wave and the more infectious variant, and would not wish anyone, but particularly not our friends.

Even if billions vaccines arrived today, it is not going to change anything now. The EU vaccine roll out needed to start with robust vigour back in January to avoid the third wave. The commission missed the opportunity and are looking for someone to blame, but that blame is squarely on the commission and certainly not the fault of member states that simply put their trust in the commission to deliver.

I think some posts on this thread feel driven by a slightly bitter undertone. Sprinkled with the mask of faux compassion. Poor Italy and Spain, thoughts and prayers. Maybe, just maybe they'll leave the EU now. Hmm. no axe there. Also how awful the enlargement has been. Omitting the fact that the UK was the EU member stated who pushed the most for the enlargement. Because if it was wide, it might not be deep. I don't know if vaccine politics or just politics are behind some posts. Best to stick to facts.

I think for now, most countries are in lockdown and that includes the UK. That is still the main way most countries are keeping people away from the virus. I don't know what amount of vaccines the various EU member states have. The next step is keeping the virus away from people with vaccination. We all have to make it to summer. I would be surprised if the vaccine programmes (which aren't reliant on US supplies) will soon be properly rolled out in the next few months across the EU member states. I'm sure everyone in the Uk will be delighted for them. Especially as the Johnson & Johnson has been said to be effect against the new variants.

However, I don't think the dismay stated towards the EU by most posters can be purely in relation to the AZ vaccine. Otherwise they'd more correctly direct their ire at the US export ban has already directly affected the UK vaccine supplies.