To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

@HotCrossBumsticks

I see Daily Mail readership is increasing.

You lot really do swallow whatever shit is in your newspapers. Its hilarious.

Great contribution.

I don't read the Daily Heil (or any other UK newspaper) - what is your take on the matter?

I don’t think Italy or Spain will leave. It’s a difficult time economically and the countries who benefit with funding from EU will stay.

@Butterflyfluff

ly saying people can’t revise their opinions in line with events that unfold?
Its the very opposite that I'm saying. Loads of remain voters ARE on here criticising the EU (just like me) and even some revising their opinion. This is a good thing. I have never (or well almost never) seen any Leave voters on here or irl move a inch from their position on Brexit even when they learnt all about the dangers Brexit would create to the peace in Ireland or damage to industry. Everything was always the EU's fault.

You are really looking at best case scenario there cail however the political damage has already been done. The seeds are now sown.
You can't undo thousand of unnecessary deaths, no matter how might wish to. The incompetence from the EU will not be lost on anyone, because we ALL have skin in the game. None of us are immune from the virus, we are all as strong as our weakest link.

I don't think the posters on here have bitter overtones to other Europeans, why would they? It is not their fault this has happened, nor are they threatening a vaccine war. Most people are despairing of VDL. Maybe there is some jealousy and envy that the UK are in a stronger position, maybe the timing with Brexit being so fresh stings a little but the general feeling is one of sadness for Europe. There are no winners in death and suffering. If the EU becomes weaker because of this debacle, it is not good for the global world order. Most people understand that.

I am just happy to have my vaccine, relieved to be finally pulling out of lockdown, looking forward to the future. I hope everyone will have this moment in due course.

If we had NOT left the EU, they wouldn't be behaving like they are now. They are wounded and sore and pissed off and angry that the UK left them. (And took our £350 MILLION a week with us! )

They don't get to push us around and dictate to us anymore, so they are trying anything they can to harm us, discredit us, and make life awkward for us.

They are a bunch of nasty little bullies.

And it must grate on them SOOOOO much that it's been announced officially that the Astrazenenca vaccine is 100% safe, and incredibly effective.

What a bunch of sour losers.

The EU member states have nothing but sympathy from us.
You obviously don't follow Leave EU on Facebook. Loads of people celebrating the EU difficulties on there.

@DynamoKev my take on the matter is that Boris must be delighted with you all!! You’ve all completely forgotten about the absolute shambles that was the U.K. covid response up till January this year when he finally got something right with vaccinations. You’ve completely forgotten about the outrageously high death rate in the U.K. from covid compared to most other EU countries. You don’t seem to even be aware of the massive drop in exports and other economic impacts of Brexit on the U.K. and you’re expending all your energy into demonising the EU when it actually is India and the US behind your upcoming shortages.

You also all seem to have this bizzare thing where as AZ was developed in the U.K. you can’t stand any kind of criticism of it and then link any criticism to Brexit.

I mean AZ made a complete mess of some of their vaccine trials, they’ve had major supply issues, they’ve not submitted paperwork in time to get some of their factories up and running and they haven’t delivered on the supply they said they would. Thankfully we have Pfizer supplying correctly.

I’m in the EU and while we wish our vaccine supplies were going quicker this handwringing of how awful the EU is, I wish we were like the U.K. etc just isn’t happening.

This. The EU is now acting like a bunch of bandits. Frankly I’m disgusted with the way so many governments including our own have handled the pandemic. BJ has got one thing right. Just one. Yes, I’m glad we are doing our own thing on this front. On everything else? No. We had more protection within the EU. Brexit was a money making exercise for the super rich.

My understanding is the EU contract, AZ would make best efforts to fulfil. With the U.K., there is an obligation of x amount within certain timeframes. They signed the contract later than us and wasted precious time screwing AZ to a lower price despite it being at cost.

Then let’s talk about investment and covax. The U.K. invested far more on both vaccine r&d and covax programme than the entirety of the EU put together. We are one country... or rather a kingdom of a few very small countries.

I voted remain and still would again despite this because no one has covered themselves in glory. And it isn’t just the U.K. that likes to point fingers.

I think certain people within the EU and in EU member states are making a fool of themselves over this.

But I would still vote remain, and we were still treated as members of the EU last year so could have joined the procurement programme (but thankfully didn't). People say if we'd not been leaving we would have been good little Europeans and taken part in the EU scheme but the truth is we'll never know.

[quote Kendodd]**@Butterflyfluff

ly saying people can’t revise their opinions in line with events that unfold?
Its the very opposite that I'm saying. Loads of remain voters ARE on here criticising the EU (just like me) and even some revising their opinion. This is a good thing. I have never (or well almost never) seen any Leave voters on here or irl move a inch from their position on Brexit even when they learnt all about the dangers Brexit would create to the peace in Ireland or damage to industry. Everything was always the EU's fault.[/quote]
Winston Churchill wrote, “Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.”

Historically, Europe has been in conflict most the time.

This EU Vaccine export ban just seems to be a sign of history repeating itself. It's not as surprising as it seems.

As another poster already in Europe has also pointed out, the story is more nuanced than what we are being told. Remember, we are subject to propaganda. And it's working rather well by the looks of it.

@LoadsOfTrouble

EU citizen here.

The EU has never tried to 'ban' use of the AZ vaccine. Moreover, the EU is not a state, and the country that banned exports of AZ vaccines (Italy) was not the same as the countries that started the (preliminary, now over) suspension of the AZ vaccine (Germany, among others).

There is nothing the UK has done about vaccination that it could not also have done while in the EU. Yes, there would probably have been pressure to distribute some of the doses now available to the UK to smaller EU countries - which in the big scheme of things would not be a bad thing - but the NHS was never under EU control.

The one constant, pre- and post-Brexit, in the UK is the piss-poor quality of debate about the EU and the rampant ignorance that permeates it. I should know, I lived in the UK for 15 years; left late 2016.

Imagine for a moment that the situation were reversed, with the UK short of vaccines and the EU not. Compared to the screaming and shouting Brexiters would be doing then, the EU is fairly low-key.

Here in Belgium, infections are up but deaths are still down. Vaccines may be few, but they've been targeted at the right people. Of course I wish there were more vaccines and less vaccine hesitancy here. But the way UK retainers are using the vaccine rollout problems in the EU to reconcile themselves to Brexit is, frankly, a bit pathetic.

Hear hear

@dontsaveusername

And I don't think Brexit has fucked up the UK economy, I think Covid has fucked up the world economy, including the EU. Until the pandemic is under control worldwide, no economy (apart from China) can flourish. Brexit is an irrelevance at the moment

You could not be more wrong if you tried.

Thanks littlepattilou for the bitter post. Shows it to itsalonghaul.

Just one thing.

And it must grate on them SOOOOO much that it's been announced officially that the Astrazenenca vaccine is 100% safe, and incredibly effective.

The EMA didn't say that. They stated that the benefits outweighed the risks. Also that they didn't find a causal link having looked at the date of the adverse events. However, people have to be aware of these type of incidents and report them should they occur.

It seems that the adverse events predominantly effected women under 55. To be aware of the demographic.

@littlepattilou you sound unhinged

EpiphanySoul1 If there is one thing that any decent government HAS to get right when it comes to a killer pandemic, it is the bloody vaccines!!! Anyone that says otherwise is deluded.

Other mistakes are to be expected and understandable, given no country apart from some Asian countries with SARS experience had any knowledge or understanding of pandemic management with an air borne virus that kills even healthy people.

So quite why you are surprised the UK are relieved that Boris Johnson got the vaccines right is strange. Of course we are delighted with this success! Because millions of lives will be saved, our economy will recover faster and people will be able to return to some kind of quality of life.

If other countries are happy to continue life under lockdown, overwhelmed hospitals and a spiralling death rate because they trusted an incompetent commission with no experience of procurement, that is up to them! However, if you read the German broadsheets I am not sure they will agree with you about not wishing for some of our success:

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-germanys-top-selling-newspaper-admits-envy-for-uks-vaccine-rollout-12227957

"What a bunch of sour losers"

That comment says so much about you.
We are all losers if our nearest neighbours are unvaccinated. It is hardly a cause for triumphalism.

Let us hope that the recent pause to investigate the clotting issue plus the new US study will bolster confidence in the AZ vaccine.

EMA did say the AZ vaccine was effective, but don't use terms like 100% effective. I don't know what efficacy the AZ vaccine has.

11 million people vaccinated in the UK already, but use of AZ vaccine will now be slowing down as there will be something like a four weeks delay in the supply of the vaccines from India; because of the US export ban.

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots

No, @Maxon , it is the US export ban which is affecting the supplies of the AZ vaccine to the UK.

@littlepattilou

If we had NOT left the EU, they wouldn't be behaving like they are now. They are wounded and sore and pissed off and angry that the UK left them. (And took our £350 MILLION a week with us! )

They don't get to push us around and dictate to us anymore, so they are trying anything they can to harm us, discredit us, and make life awkward for us.

They are a bunch of nasty little bullies.

And it must grate on them SOOOOO much that it's been announced officially that the Astrazenenca vaccine is 100% safe, and incredibly effective.

What a bunch of sour losers.

I can understand why you would feel like you have "won" and the EU have "lost". Although, I would get your facts straight about statements like: "Astrazenenca vaccine is 100% safe".

You are describing an ego win: "Pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall."

Ever heard of the long-game?

I'm still waiting to see how this plays out. Not out the woods yet.

11 million people vaccinated using the AZ vaccine, that should say. Vaccinations using other vaccines carried out as well.

@Cailleach1

EMA did say the AZ vaccine was effective, but don't use terms like 100% effective. I don't know what efficacy the AZ vaccine has.

11 million people vaccinated in the UK already, but use of AZ vaccine will now be slowing down as there will be something like a four weeks delay in the supply of the vaccines from India; because of the US export ban.

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-benefits-still-outweigh-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots

No, @Maxon , it is the US export ban which is affecting the supplies of the AZ vaccine to the UK.

"No, @Maxon , it is the US export ban which is affecting the supplies of the AZ vaccine to the UK."

I see, apologies. So, why is that not being reported?

Oh. Propaganda program of "EU is bad" and "Brexit is good".

@Maxnon ,

They don't get to push us around and dictate to us anymore, so they are trying anything they can to harm us, discredit us, and make life awkward for us.

Is that why you think the US have implemented an export ban that affects the supply of AZ vaccines to the UK?

What in your infinite wisdom does such US interference in UK supplies stem from? Are the US maybe just jealous of the UK too?

@Maxnon , I accept your apology.

I've posted links reporting the US export ban and the significance it has to the supply chain in the manufacture of AZ vaccines.

@Itsalonghaul Like I said you are delighted about vaccines and seem to either not be aware or not care about your extremely high death toll and economic impacts such as large drops in exports. Your sole focus seems to be the vaccine drive.

Are you saying all those people who died don’t matter as the only important thing to get right is the vaccination?

I’m in Ireland, our cases are starting to increase again slowly, our deaths are decreasing with only 2 deaths reported yesterday and our vaccination rates are increasing and we are using up all the vaccines we have as soon as possible. I would obviously like it to go faster as I have vulnerable family members waiting for the vaccine but I understand there are supply issues. We are due to vaccinate another 1.1 million people with our next batch of Pfizer alone - that’s both doses not one dose. Our total population is

It’s a massive mess and will come down to a big choice for the EU.

Eat the humiliation and try and negotiate with the UK to

Go full chat on the principle, ban exports, risk Pfizer and also harden diplomatic responses for assistance.

They will go for the second if they care about the institution of the EU, and on the basis of the current performance it would seem that they would rather that than admit failings and act in the interests of EU citizens after announcing “solidarity”.