To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

Right

I think a win win could involve British help in getting the EU factories up to speed, ironing out the problems with production ( that we had too but as we started earlier had more time to fix)
I keep hearing it’s a zero sum game - but it’s not. We can all make more doses if we get the manufacturer side right ( and the EU stops making threats making everyone nervous , suppliers and manufacturers alike, not too mention politicians and citizens.)
And we can also offer advice with roll out too. What is working for us here and what could speed it all up in the EU too. Things like our priority list has added to the speed of roll out, avoiding the arguments about jobs for example.
I also think the EU should look at what we are doing here with the dose gap, that is working too and drop all the confusing age restrictions, maybe too late for that now though.

And stop all the negative political briefings to install more confidence in the people

I do think this will fade though come the spring. It’s all a bit Grand Old Duke of York to me

Interesting that the US is distributing the AZ doses abroad. They have 7 million and are distributing 4 million. The FDA may not envisage authorising the AZ any time soon for use in the states if they are moving the stocks out. They're hanging onto 3 million for the moment, though.

However, the US has a stockpile of the vaccine. Announcing the plan to distribute doses on Thursday, White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki said that 2.5m of the US's 7m jabs will go to Mexico and 1.5m of which will be given to Canada.

Under the agreement, the countries must return any excess doses to the US.

President Joe Biden expressed his intention last week "to start off making sure Americans are taken care of first".

The plan would mark the first time the US has directly supplied vaccines to another country.

I wonder if this is the first time that a developed country has distributed vaccines from it's own stock. Ok, the US aren't distributing the stocks they are using for their own population, like J&J, Pfizer or Moderna. So not really doing any Americans out of a jab. Good they're not letting the AZ vaccines sit until they expire.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56451810

Sasha yes you make very good points.

Better collaboration and learning is much preferred to a future where countries build in protectionism into supply chains from fear of state requisition.

I think until VDL either resigns or is forced out, no one will have any confidence in the vaccine rollout or the EU commission as a whole.

Not only is she damaging the bloc irreparably with her threats and inexperience, she is also responsible for the loss of life that will follow her bad decisions.

Her position is no longer tenable under all circumstances.
The EU should install someone that will lead from the front with diplomacy. Only then can we have a fresh start, restart co operation and friendly dialogue and solve the situation in hand.

This is interesting

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/25/eu-leaders-push-back-against-blocs-plans-to-halt-covid-vaccine-export

The EU has a few members who understand how stupid this would be. Good.

Thank you LexMitior, gosh what a mess!
"The Commission is looking at the possibility of restricting AstraZeneca vaccine exports manufactured at a plant in the Netherlands run by a subcontractor, Halix.
.....However, the European Medicines Agency has not yet authorized the Halix factory to manufacture vaccines for the EU. That approval is now in process" Why only now?

So the Commission messed up and wants the UK to tidy their disaster by sending UK manufactured AZ vaccines to add to existing EU stored stocks. (A European Epidemiologist says they are holding stock for the 2nd doses)
Extraordinarily the UK government took an early punt and invested in an unproven vaccine developed on our shores, in the hope of eventual success.
The UK committed to the AZ deal a full three months before the EU put pen to paper, so understandably the UK are ahead. The growth mediums and processes are more fully established in the AZ factory here.

In reference to ....reciprocity....defined as "the export of either finished vaccine doses, or of raw materials needed to make vaccines".
The lipid transport medium needed to manufacture the Pfizer Vaccine is exported to the EU from a British company in Yorkshire.
I feel for AZ who are making this vaccine at cost and at every turn have been denigrated and maligned by EU leaders.
.

And now the EU have been criticised by Jean Claude Juncker for their “stupid vaccine war”.

The Commission has lost it, and sending the Italian military police to raid supplying companies has upset pharma and their suppliers.

Someone needs to get them to think soberly. They are trashing their reputation.

I never thought we would ever wish to have Juncker back!

Quite sad on a personal level that we are speaking about VDL in this way, as a fellow woman I would have loved for to be a spectacular success for the EU

Do all countries use the same criteria when calculating Covid deaths?

@Mrsorganmorgan

Do all countries use the same criteria when calculating Covid deaths?

No. For that, and reasons around different demographics and environments, it's not all that simple to compare.

Thank you SmokedDuck . I didn't know that.

Several EU MS haven't counted care home deaths, for example. Really accurate comparisons are still a work in progress. While the UK's total deaths are among the highest in the world, relative to population size our ranking was about 7/8th. Which is quite awful enough. (Times or Telegraph last weekend IIRC).

Why didn't they count Care Home deaths? Seems a bit contrary, given how many old people have died.

In Sweden we have quite a high covid death toll compared to our neighbours but our excess deaths are not really any higher than previous years.

That is because elderly people tend to die of something whether it is covid or the flu. Mostly and very sadly their time was up fat
Unpalatable but it is life.

@Mrsorganmorgan

Do all countries use the same criteria when calculating Covid deaths?

Excess deaths are quite a good tool to see how many more people than usual died when the disease struck.

Shame the UK doesn't care enough about its citizens to do so, but that's not our fault

Shame European leaders don't trust or listen to their own EMA, but that's not our fault @jellybellybanana

Thank you PigletJohn. I will have a look at the number of excess deaths.

Excess deaths is a good measure. It certainly makes the UK top one chart related to Covid19.

Listened to a very interesting podcast on the issues with AZ. It said that the UK gov't agreed an exclusivity agreement with the Oxford vaccine developers when they initially supported the development of the vaccine. It required the entire population in the UK to be covered first by vaccine manufactured in the UK. Only after that, could any british manufactured vaccine be supplied abroad. AZ inherited that protectionist clause from the original agreement between the Oxford team and the British gov't.

The US of course have also engaged in protectionist measures and have put an export ban in place (notwithstanding the distribution of a vaccine they weren't using) It seems the problem for the EU is that it wasn't protectionist enough and failed to employ measures similar to the UK and US. Thus making noises about doing it now.

It contrasted the German government's involvement with BioNTech (which then teamed up with Pfizer) with that of the British government's involvement of Oxford/AZ. The German gov't didn't insert a clause making sure their own population was covered first before any vaccines left the country. Whether they didn't think of it, or whether on principle they didn't want to engage in vaccine nationalism, I don't know.

So basically, by not having put exclusivity or protectionist measures in place like the UK or an export ban like US, the EU seem to be without adequate supplies. The free trade in vaccines in Europe seems not to be quite so free, as it is only going one way; vaccines out of the EU. This is why there seems to be discussion about bringing in the protectionism now. A reciprocity element was discussed. Vaccines receiving export authorisation to leave the EU, only if they are going to a country which doesn't have protectionist measures to stop exports of their own vaccines.

I imagine going forward, all developed countries will follow the UK and US by putting exclusivity/ protectionist clause in place at the outset or export bans. Whether when supporting the development of vaccines /medication or after.

www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0325/1206192-podcast-ep-81-contract-crash-course/

@Itsalonghaul

That is because elderly people tend to die of something whether it is covid or the flu. Mostly and very sadly their time was up fat Unpalatable but it is life.

Excess deaths have been far higher in UK this year which shows many people who would not have died have died of covid, many of whom were living healthily.

So not only unpalatable, also untrue.

Excess deaths have been higher in most countries thanks to covid cryh but lets not forget the average age of those dying - certainly here in the UK is 82.4 years.

Actually UK is 7/8th in line overall so not at the top thanks lemon for more misinformation.

The Commission has lost it, and sending the Italian military police to raid supplying companies has upset pharma and their suppliers.

Expressions like armed police/military police have been used a few times in this discussion and I do wonder if it's because genuine surprise or an attempt to be emotive.

Most police forces on the European mainland are armed and in many countries the police, or elements of them, are military...the concept of the unarmed civilian in uniform being a police officer, the "bobby on the beat" is not the norm.

I'm not sure of the exact situation in Italy, I'd need to check, but as an example if somebody requested law enforcement assistance in France it almost certainly would be done would be done by officers (armed) of the National Gendarmeire - which is a branch of of the armed forces...