To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

LadywithLapdog are you ok hun?

Fig yes the JCVI made that call and it’s a good one based on RW data - unless you can link otherwise?

I understand we are due to get the Pfizer, of course export ban is unwelcome which is why people aren’t happy to hear about current EU stance.

It's time the citizens of the EU grew some b...ls, stuck out their arms and got vaccinated instead of mithering on about side effects.
Coming myself from an EU background I find it incomprehensible that citizens appear to be lacking such backbone.
Blimey, however bad the side effects are they bear no relation to the results of actually getting the illness, the possibility of ongoing long covid illness and bringing your countries to their knees.
You've had us Brits as test cases so get on with it, take the vaccine.
It's not about the UK against the EU, we all need to get this done urgently, so we can all start to function again. We are near neighbours and interdependent.
No one country has got everything right, many could have done things better and the Brits are always the most self deprecating people, but to watch the EU make such a hash of protecting their citizens is just awful.
And all we see this side of the channel is the EU trying its damnest to thwart Britain at every turn. We didn't do Brexit to cast off the citizens of Europe we did it precisely so we could make our own decisions and be held to account for them. Not let some distant unelected authority dictate to us. Just on this occasion we have just been more nimble.

Good advice was given by the JCVI regarding vaccine intervals which has subsequently been proven. But anyway surely it is better to give 85% of citizens 70-90% protection against severe Covid illness than wait to inject less of the population to 80-95% effectiveness?

Here, this is a very good article on the EU and vaccine problems.

The real issue is that Britain can sue the EU for a breach of WTO law if the EU takes powers to “repurpose” vaccine for its own use. That is unlawful.

www.politico.eu/article/threats-but-few-details-as-european-commission-demands-reciprocity-in-vaccine-exports/

Interesting angle on vaccine price differences. The Johnson & Johnson at $10 (ca £7.30) may be more cost effect than at first glance.

It only requires one injection. So, you'd have to double the costs of the two injection vaccines to do like for like; or half the cost of the J&J one. Also, there are less ancillary costs with only one appointment and use of medical staff's time, so you'd have to factor that in too.

It has been tested against new variants as well, so efficacy hard to compare in a like for like.

Johnson & Johnson vaccine does have a shorter shelf life, at three months. It makes you wonder what will happen to the stockpile of AZ the US are sitting on as that has a shelf life of 6 months. If they aren't approved for use by the FDA and aren't moved elsewhere (where they are approved for use, emergency use or otherwise) by six months from production, will they have to be chucked?

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56226979

Article on the trials and tribulations of AZ in the US.

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-trial-latest-b1821200.html

[quote Cailleach1]Interesting angle on vaccine price differences. The Johnson & Johnson at $10 (ca £7.30) may be more cost effect than at first glance.

It only requires one injection. So, you'd have to double the costs of the two injection vaccines to do like for like; or half the cost of the J&J one. Also, there are less ancillary costs with only one appointment and use of medical staff's time, so you'd have to factor that in too.

It has been tested against new variants as well, so efficacy hard to compare in a like for like.

Johnson & Johnson vaccine does have a shorter shelf life, at three months. It makes you wonder what will happen to the stockpile of AZ the US are sitting on as that has a shelf life of 6 months. If they aren't approved for use by the FDA and aren't moved elsewhere (where they are approved for use, emergency use or otherwise) by six months from production, will they have to be chucked?

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56226979

Article on the trials and tribulations of AZ in the US.

www.independent.co.uk/news/science/covid-astrazeneca-vaccine-trial-latest-b1821200.html[/quote]
How many doses have the US got?

Hopefully it would go to eg Canada and / or Mexico rather than wasted. Iirc they have approved it.

The US is now considering where to send the AZ vaccines once they are sure the US is covered. I believe they are aiming to send most of their stock to Canada and Mexico, although they can and may change course.

Interesting piece on R4 on this right now.

Talking about the public rebuke to AZ quite surprising. Nee data has been submitted but it hasn’t changed much.

On being questioned by interviewer AZ have indicated they wouldn’t do this at cost again in next pandemic. So I guess we’ll get what some prefer but low and middle income might lose out.

New

On being questioned by interviewer AZ have indicated they wouldn’t do this at cost again in next pandemic. So I guess we’ll get what some prefer but low and middle income might lose out.

And who can blame them. The EU have acted shamefully.

Many EU countries have a higher % of fully vaccinated people more than the UK.

in order to give the max amount of people the minimal protection from one dose.

FFS, not another one. Go educate yourself @Figrollface and do us all a favour.

[quote LexMitior]Here, this is a very good article on the EU and vaccine problems.

The real issue is that Britain can sue the EU for a breach of WTO law if the EU takes powers to “repurpose” vaccine for its own use. That is unlawful.

www.politico.eu/article/threats-but-few-details-as-european-commission-demands-reciprocity-in-vaccine-exports/[/quote]
Interesting! I'm sure the "the EU is only following the law" people will be in full support of us suing the EU

People vaccinated in the UK:

First dose total
28,653,523 first dose of COVID-19 vaccine, reported up to Tuesday, 23 March 2021.

Second dose total
2,532,839

Lets compare to France:

Tuesday 23 March 2021 (consolidated data), 6,616,899 people have been given the first dose of the vaccine in France, namely 9.90% of the population.

2,506,023 people have been given the second dose of vaccine, namely 3.70% of the population.

Figrollface so you can do the Maths. You can clearly see the second dose is almost even between countries, however the UK have vaccinated over 22 MILLION people more with a first dose as things stand currently.

www.sortiraparis.com/news/in-paris/articles/239732-vaccination-in-france-how-many-people-are-vaccinated-as-of-datacovid-confirmedfr/lang/en

coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations

*In issuing her new threats last week, von der Leyen offered a rationale for blocking exports more widely — a move that while controversial might actually lift vaccination rates in the EU. Coincidentally, it might also give a boost to Germany’s governing Christian Democratic Union party in a super election year.

But other EU countries said they would oppose such an aggressive move, warning that von der Leyen’s incendiary approach was risking the EU’s reputation in an attempt to play to a German audience.

“I’m increasingly feeling like a we’re all just part ... of a German election play,” said one EU diplomat*

Hmm...

This is all such a mess.

At the same time, he confirmed that even if the Commission were to block exports, it did not currently have legal authority to seize unshipped vaccines and repurpose them for EU countries. Such a move would require additional emergency measures and could risk violating World Trade Organization rules, as well as further undermine the EU’s reputation as a champion of international rules-based free trade

Journalists and some national officials were still left wondering how the Commission would actually guarantee delivery of the expected vaccines, something it has yet to be able to do with AstraZeneca

@MarshaBradyo

Interesting piece on R4 on this right now.

Talking about the public rebuke to AZ quite surprising. Nee data has been submitted but it hasn’t changed much.

On being questioned by interviewer AZ have indicated they wouldn’t do this at cost again in next pandemic. So I guess we’ll get what some prefer but low and middle income might lose out.

I don’t blame AZ at all. I also wouldn’t pull out all the stops to get it done as quickly as possible, I would insert a clause to say all contracts null and void if politicians / journalists actively seek to discredit the vaccine too on unsubstantiated rumours and misunderstandings of the data and I would probably prefer to deal with individual countries with a direct line of command rather than a trading block where no body is accountable or in charge.

It's time the citizens of the EU grew some b...ls, stuck out their arms and got vaccinated instead of mithering on about side effects

You may not have noticed, but we don't have enough vaccines (due to the UK hogging them all, in part), so we can't get vaccinated.

And no-one is "mithering about side effects", they are doing their scientific due diligence in monitoring safety. Shame the UK doesn't care enough about its citizens to do so, but that's not our fault.

@Umbivalent

Yes I don’t think the EU would like being sued. The issue is that if they do this not just to Britain, but others, then their trade rep and business rep with those countries and pharma are just destroyed,

This is why the EU want an agreement. If they use these laws then it will not just Britain who will be affected and they know it.

Truly, they have effed this up internationally, instead of perfidious Albion or whatever fantasies exist.

@Umbivalent

Journalists and some national officials were still left wondering how the Commission would actually guarantee delivery of the expected vaccines, something it has yet to be able to do with AstraZeneca

They can’t. This is a futile gesture. One that is done for optics, because to do it would be hugely damaging.

I think the EU should avoid gesture politics. That is Johnson’s speciality, and he’s very much better at it, plus 27 countries may have different gestures....

Oh jelly if only that were true!

I am sure you tell yourself that the vaccine take up is going brilliantly, and you don't really have millions of vaccines piled up unused across the EU, and soon to be out of date! But honestly every post is littered with outright lies.

We are not hogging vaccines! We ordered them legally and took care to get the contracts right. Something the EU failed to do in their race to cut costs and take short cuts.

You know as well as I do that Pjizer had the same percentage of clots, and yet they were spared this shit show! It is pure politics, and you jelly are being damaged the most by it.

@jellybellybanana

It's time the citizens of the EU grew some b...ls, stuck out their arms and got vaccinated instead of mithering on about side effects

You may not have noticed, but we don't have enough vaccines (due to the UK hogging them all, in part), so we can't get vaccinated.

And no-one is "mithering about side effects", they are doing their scientific due diligence in monitoring safety. Shame the UK doesn't care enough about its citizens to do so, but that's not our fault.

Can’t hog something you’ve paid for months in advance whilst someone else was ‘umming and arringggg’!!!

“I’m increasingly feeling like a we’re all just part ... of a German election play,” said one EU diplomat.

This!

Hogging

🙄 yeh tight. Why is the EU production so much slower than U.K.? You get first 300m from there before getting any from U.K. Blame whoever created the contract which btw doesn’t involve U.K., and those slow to production.

Although joint statement issued looks like mistakes will be smoothed over with help.