To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

@MarshaBradyo people who call others stupid because they don't share the same views seem more small minded to me than those they are accusing of being

Let's discuss the issue rather than traducing the intelligence, could we please.... Unless you have a government level insight, that you could state unequivocally.

Abridged version: the EU bureaucrats have decided to play playground bully, largely because they are faced with the PR disaster that is the idiots who exited their party running a very effective national vaccination programme. They haven't corrected their (fairly rabid) anti-vaxxers, nor attempted to trade evenhandedly with the ROW. And now, continental Europe is facing another wave of contagion

Daily Mail version you mean. None of that is actually correct

@jellybellybanana can you not see the eu is wrong on this, doesn't mean people have to hate them but when something is wrong even something you believe in surely you point that out and accept it

Let's discuss the issue rather than traducing the intelligence, could we please.... Unless you have a government level insight, that you could state unequivocally.
Who was that aimed at ?

So GSK and Pfizer have pledged to no profit during pandemic too.

29th May, 2020.
^Global manufacturers AstraZeneca, GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson on Thursday pledged to supply covid-19 vaccines on a no-profit basis to improve access to any successful vaccine when it is available in the market.
“It’s certainly a situation where we will not charge any royalty and make no profit during the time of this pandemic," Pascal Soriot, ^

All very laudable, I'm sure. One could not argue it is not good PR for all of them too. These things don't need to be mutually exclusive. Some things can also give a good look.

Has it created better and fairer access to supplies? Would not giving exclusive licences to manufacture the vaccines had a better outcome for production and wider access to supplies?

@Cailleach1

So GSK and Pfizer have pledged to no profit during pandemic too.

29th May, 2020.
^Global manufacturers AstraZeneca, GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson on Thursday pledged to supply covid-19 vaccines on a no-profit basis to improve access to any successful vaccine when it is available in the market.
“It’s certainly a situation where we will not charge any royalty and make no profit during the time of this pandemic," Pascal Soriot, ^

All very laudable, I'm sure. One could not argue it is not good PR for all of them too. These things don't need to be mutually exclusive. Some things can also give a good look.

Has it created better and fairer access to supplies? Would not giving exclusive licences to manufacture the vaccines had a better outcome for production and wider access to supplies?

No mention of what happens after the pandemic. Which is why, no doubt, India has designed it’s own version

@Cailleach1

So GSK and Pfizer have pledged to no profit during pandemic too.

29th May, 2020.
^Global manufacturers AstraZeneca, GlaxoSmithKline, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson on Thursday pledged to supply covid-19 vaccines on a no-profit basis to improve access to any successful vaccine when it is available in the market.
“It’s certainly a situation where we will not charge any royalty and make no profit during the time of this pandemic," Pascal Soriot, ^

All very laudable, I'm sure. One could not argue it is not good PR for all of them too. These things don't need to be mutually exclusive. Some things can also give a good look.

Has it created better and fairer access to supplies? Would not giving exclusive licences to manufacture the vaccines had a better outcome for production and wider access to supplies?

The price isn’t comparable is it?

Ox AZ is very low, it differs, but European Union is paying at $2.15 for example per dose

BioNTech and Pfizer vaccine is $14.70 and in the US ($19.50). The Moderna vaccine’s development was subsidised by the US government, and it will cost the US about $15 a dose, while the EU is paying $18.

What's happening now only proves it's better to be part of a bloc like the EU than out on your own like the UK.
Been a member of the EU gives power in unity, what's happening now with vaccines is just a taste of things to come for poor UK.

@Figrollface not really as we would be nowhere near where we are on the vaccine rollout

@Figrollface

What's happening now only proves it's better to be part of a bloc like the EU than out on your own like the UK. Been a member of the EU gives power in unity, what's happening now with vaccines is just a taste of things to come for poor UK.

I think all this has proven is how much of an international powerhouse the UK is. The reason why they could move so fast is because UK companies not only have international supply chains, the UK government is able to move fast when it wants to. I wouldn’t be surprised if this fiasco results in a quicker free trade deal, once the politicking is finished.

There is a wide variation in price, that's true. However, it is the same to the manufacturer if they don't receive a profit. Although I wonder what at cost is. I don't think the price would have made a huge difference to the capacity of wealthier nations to get their first dibs in.

The pay off will be when they determine the pandemic emergency to be over. If that is this summer, there is oodles of dosh to yet be made. It will be interesting to see if there are wide variations in price then too.

I won't begrudge the vaccine developers a penny of the royalties they will get either; when they start receiving them.

@Cailleach1

There is a wide variation in price, that's true. However, it is the same to the manufacturer if they don't receive a profit. Although I wonder what at cost is. I don't think the price would have made a huge difference to the capacity of wealthier nations to get their first dibs in.

The pay off will be when they determine the pandemic emergency to be over. If that is this summer, there is oodles of dosh to yet be made. It will be interesting to see if there are wide variations in price then too.

I won't begrudge the vaccine developers a penny of the royalties they will get either; when they start receiving them.

If Pfizer don’t make a profit at that price it’d be interesting to see why and how AZ can offer it so low.

Also it may not make a big difference to wealthy nations but it does middle income.

India for example may be benefitting from lower cost.

There was commentary on this, can’t recall all of it but it was a main benefit.

It’s hard to argue it’s not a good thing

@Figrollface

What's happening now only proves it's better to be part of a bloc like the EU than out on your own like the UK. Been a member of the EU gives power in unity, what's happening now with vaccines is just a taste of things to come for poor UK.

That would be to assume that the UK and the EU have done equal things - they have not.

The EU have actually failed. Their power is actually rather limited, even though they have great resources, they haven't been used and they have squandered advantages and relationships because of their unity.

Unity doing nothing is not the same as unity that achieves something.

Long term it has been a powerful lesson for the UK. Cut links asap. Built law, supply linrd and policy away from the EU. And build those links elsewhere (fairly this is already happening). It cannot happen fast enough imo, someone who voted remain. Britain should understand that after the Article 16 debacle we are dealing with some dodgy operators whatever the public line is.

The EU without the UK does not appear to have the grit to make intelligent risk based decisions, obsessed instead with the precautionary principle.

Lastly (trying to do stuff at same time)

The not for origin might appear the same to the pharma no matter the price, but it’s a big difference to the buyer

@GrumpyHoonMain

You are perceptive. Watch for the second half of the year.

The EU's behaviour has been abominable. They must be embarrassed. I feel sorry for the EU citizens who the EU have thrown under the bus. The EU burocrats all got their jabs.

It wasn't aimed at any poster personally. Back in the morning.

Ah ha... so now we know, the EU have 6 million unused AZ doses sitting in fridges unused.
We are told today that those stocks are held by some EU countries in order to give the 2nd doses!
So given the EU has the UK example as a testing ground for max protection by forging ahead with mass vaccination of 1st doses... EU governments are actively deciding to let their populations die by not giving the first dose to as many people as poss.
Why dont they just get jabs in arms asap and stop f....king around and maybe we can all get out of this hell.
I never thought I'd say it but Thank God we left.

@Figrollface

What's happening now only proves it's better to be part of a bloc like the EU than out on your own like the UK. Been a member of the EU gives power in unity, what's happening now with vaccines is just a taste of things to come for poor UK.

Idk in terms of vaccine procurement U.K. has proved nimble with good decisions

Bloody hell. Who needs the daily * when you just come in Mumsnet for the same hate and drivel about the EU and jingoistic fawning over the UK. Shameful.

I think much more difficult is the stockpiling MS who have pushed are now asking those MS who either have little or want to use AZ to potentially block exports. It is a curious unity they want.

The Netherlands, Belgium and the Irish will be the majority enforcers of this export ban, not France, Germany or Italy.

I wonder what will happen if one of them does not do as they are told. Then the Commission will have a big problem.

@LadyWithLapdog

Bloody hell. Who needs the daily * when you just come in Mumsnet for the same hate and drivel about the EU and jingoistic fawning over the UK. Shameful.

Which part is fawning? God forbid anyone says U.K. has done something well.

No it must all be crap and doom.

If you mean vaccine procurement I suppose you could have done better

I mean 125,000 deaths but, oh look, let’s look the other way. Read the american papers and you’ll see a different reporting. It’s not just as the right wing press in the tells you it is.