To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

@QuentinInQuarantino but they aren't hosting 2 factories sending it all to the uk ?
Where do you get that from ?
Pfizer are issuing to both and as for Az is seems also to both otherwise how would the eu have any stock
Supposedly boris has suggested stock due from one site that should be going to uk I assume due to contracts , is shared so therefore is that not a way to go foreward , rather than threats , you talk
Also all these people claiming the uk have vaccinated there vulnerable , that is not true we have given one dose to most , I myself fall into the vulnerable my second jab is due in june so therefore july before fully vaccinated
Its the threats I have an issue with , talking is the way to go

@jellybellybanana they are also considering pfizer as well , which has nothing to dd with this and meeting its contracts

I still wish we could go back to an EU which is just a trade and free movement association

So do I
We're way past that now, but if they'd kept with the original plan we'd probably all be in a better place. However that was never going to happen once Germany saw their chance for european domination, so now they'll just have to watch when the less wealthy countries cling on for the subsidies and the net donors gradually leave

@TheMancunianCandidate I don't think the uk would put in such a ban as long as we get the pfizer jabs as well plus its just not something that looks good , however way you dress it
I suppose only way would be if pfizer were to say send elsewhere and we can supply from another factory or something but its not a road to go down
I also think we will be all fully vaccinated at similar times in grand scheme
The uk seem further ahead due to leaving the larger gaps , the Eu could do this and probably catch up , they may not want to take that risk , which is fair enough . But seems the only reason we are looking as far ahead that I can see
We also are not out of lockdown so our numbers are lower and schools just recently back , so whilst I hope this stays the same ( well goes down) we have no guarantees
If we have learnt anything about this virus is it gets out of control quite quickly

Personally I think the eu and uk should speak to the USA re their as in stock ? Could they send some as they aren't using anytime soon and uk and eu factories send back as and when batches are available ?

The EU is looking after itself which is exactly what you would expect it to do - and is actually no different to what the UK is trying to do. Now we've left, the UK can no longer use the EU as a scapegoat for all its woes - it needs to own its own problems. The EU is not to blame for the UK having the highest per capita death toll in Europe nor is it to blame for the fact that the NHS isn't the greatest health service in Europe (no amount of clapping on doorsteps will alter that fact). The UK is on its own now - through choice - but is learning that to fight Covid effectively, so that life can can return to pre-pandemic normality, we all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet. Brilliant that it's rolling out the vaccine programme so speedily, but valiantly waving Union Jacks and saying 'I'm alright Jack' is hopeless unless other countries are doing the same - especially if Johnson's dad and his other cronies are all planning to visit their holiday homes this summer.

@LillianGish we have just introduced a £5000 fine and banned holidays
So you will be ok if eu ban pfizer exports that the uk have paid for ( these don't belong to the eu ) and people here don't get their second doses and contracts are broken

@LillianGish you might also want to check out the highest capita death rate as its not the uk on the eu , belgium and some others
But its not a competition who has done worse or better , every european country has been devastated by this

@MarshaBradyo

I think it was reported in the press at the time the Gov leaned on the MRHA to hurry up. I think it's one of the fee time Gov did things right. Even if there were problems with a vaccine it's highly unlikely they would be as bad as covid

There’s a difference between being fast and cutting corners. Eg they worked through the weekends but the process was the same as any other vaccine. Nothing was left out which is what pp implied.

I think it is important to clarify that the UK used the Emergency Use Authorisation for AZ vaccine. This was used to facilitate getting the vaccine in use as quickly as possible in a health emergency. This type of authorisation is not as rigorous as full approval. Rigorous (these are medicines regulators), but not as thorough and the data not as complete. It was a perfectly valid use of this route under the circumstance. I think some liability issues were waived by the British gov't.

Hungary used this EUA method for the Russian Sputnik and the Chinese Sinopharm, for use within it's own borders. All EU member states could have done the same (through their own national regulators) but decided to go through the EMA. The EMA is not a national body and cannot use the EUA route. They had to use a Conditional Marketing Authorisation. This is more involved and so took longer. The manufacturers remain liable for their products, as well. You cannot compare apples with oranges.

National regulatory authorities and EMA will be closely monitoring data from these vaccines in real time. If they need to pause and check, like EMA did, then they will.

An article I read stated that AZ hasn't even applied to the US for Emergency Use Authorisation as the FDA wouldn't give that until it sees the results from US clinical trials.

From mid February, but interesting nonetheless.

www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2021/02/19/the-uk-the-eu-and-the-who-have-all-authorized-astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine--why-hasnt-the-us/?sh=2d6a50d4350e

India told the UK last week that they would not be sending the promised vaccines as they want to look after their own first. Where is the multiple threads screaming at "selfish India"? But so many against the EU...it's almost as if there is some kind of prior beef with the EU.....

If the EU decides that EU made materials and EU made vaccines are better put to use vaccinating EU citizens rather than UK citizens, I can't see any issue with that at all. As stated, I am 100% certain the UK would do the exact same if the position was reversed.

Holidays are banned, but the 'Stanley Johnson loophole' allows people to visit their second homes abroad (a bit like the Barnard Castle Spec Savers lockdown loophole).

@jellybellybanana no india didn't as they were not promised its very different and they are delayed but these appear to be extra

@jellybellybanana you are also missing they are not all made with eu materials ? Its not that simple

@LillianGish

The EU is looking after itself which is exactly what you would expect it to do - and is actually no different to what the UK is trying to do. Now we've left, the UK can no longer use the EU as a scapegoat for all its woes - it needs to own its own problems. The EU is not to blame for the UK having the highest per capita death toll in Europe nor is it to blame for the fact that the NHS isn't the greatest health service in Europe (no amount of clapping on doorsteps will alter that fact). The UK is on its own now - through choice - but is learning that to fight Covid effectively, so that life can can return to pre-pandemic normality, we all need to be singing from the same hymn sheet. Brilliant that it's rolling out the vaccine programme so speedily, but valiantly waving Union Jacks and saying 'I'm alright Jack' is hopeless unless other countries are doing the same - especially if Johnson's dad and his other cronies are all planning to visit their holiday homes this summer.

These sort of posts are all over the place

Many are saying it’s a contractual issue and to do with EU / AZ as the two parties.

People seem to be lashing out at the U.K. and there’s not much point in trying to paint some bad picture.

The U.K. had done a very good job at vaccine procurement.

In terms of EU lacking supply isn’t there excess supply that could be used?

All the posters saying fine to go over and above the contract. Yes the state can, the mechanisms are there.

But there’s benefits and downsides to this as it effects other countries, in this case, and you can also consider any impact on commercial confidence.

In terms of EU lacking supply isn’t there excess supply that could be used?

No. That's what lacking supply means. There isn't enough.

@jellybellybanana

In terms of EU lacking supply isn’t there excess supply that could be used?

No. That's what lacking supply means. There isn't enough.

I’ve seen so many posts on this and commentary on R4

Here’s one. Irritating when you have to google due to some patronising poster

Just weeks ago, the European Union was clamoring for AstraZeneca Plc’s Covid-19 vaccine. Now, fewer than one-tenth of the doses delivered to Germany have been administered in the initial days of the roll-out, and some health-care workers say they’re concerned about side effects.

A recent survey from YouGov found that 81% of Britons believe the AZ vaccine is safe, on par with a similar 79% of U.K. citizens who trust the Pfizer vaccine. However, in Germany only 43% think the AZ vaccine is safe, and in France, just 33% consider it safe.

Probably part of the issue. Instead of going on about U.K. faults maybe deal with that

I don't know about Germany but El Pais has a handy graph for Spain. The line that looks like steps is the vaccines arriving in Spain, the second line is jabs in arms and the third line fully vaccinated.

This idea that the EU is sitting on vaccines doesn't apply in this country at least.

I volunteer at a vaccination hub, have done since early January. When we opened and were just seeing the very elderly lots did ask which vaccine it was and were very relieved to be told it was Oxford, I wonder if some would have refused Pifzer. I suspect similar (in reverse) is part of the picture everywhere, you put more trust in your own countries vaccine than others. Silly really considering I don't think any country can claim ownership of any vaccine, they all seem to be developed and produced by international teams and partnerships.

The issue with people worried about Pjizer will be because of the RNA aspect, and not wanting to the first in line for an injection that was at testing stage/totally new to the world. Oxford AZ has been around in a moderated form for years and years, as it was being tested for SARS etc.

Some were very worried about their DNA being affected etc.

Take up in older age groups was very high though so any Pfizer reluctance seems to have been overcome

Yes definitely, the take up has been incredible in the UK of both vaccines. But then our older people are a sensible, pragmatic bunch keen to get back to Bingo and an afternoon tea with Betty :)

while it's true that private companies produced the vaccines in question it's also true that EU is spending enormous money on science. In fact UK till recently was the biggest beneficiary of this. In Oxford, the team is looking for funds to work on 11 different pathogens due to Brexit.