Was mum U for telling DS(7) that her young neighbour went to heaven.

[dontsaveusername]

They have a photo taken about 9 years ago of her NdN who was around 39 at the time, with her two young boys. All round about my age and my boys. DS brought the photo to DM and asked if it was me, as we recently showed him of photos of himself as a baby and he didn't recognise me.

DM said no, it was the lady next door and she went to Heaven. DS looked very sad and asked if she had died. DM and I were mortified and blundered around saying it was a long time ago and the boys were grown ups now. For info. NDN died of cancer and her boys were still quite young. DM feels awful and I am annoyed with her. We are worried he is silently worried I might die. Should I say something or just let it go. He is like an elephant and never forgets anything. Am I just worrying over nothing.

@Tottington

We live on a farm and death is very much part of my kids' lives. DS asked about death a lot when he was about 3-4. We've got a lovely book called life cycles that basically says everything has a beginning and an end. Some are short and some are longer. Most humans die when they're older but some can get sick.

Hopefully we're not breeding psychopaths but I don't want them thinking death is unnatural or something people don't talk about.

That sounds very nice actually, and I’m sure they won’t turn out to be psychopaths

@wondermule you are being ridiculous. And offensive.

Ok but honestly why are parents so neurotic about the minutiae of what they say to kids these days?

Nobody ever tiptoed around me like that, and I don’t have a fear of dying, strange phobias etc

Good for you, but plenty of children do end up with confusion and pain around this topic & people are focused on reducing the chances of that. While I'd never say I'm not neurotic, it's not bad to consider how best to handle difficult topics and that it may be more complicated for some children - how do you think a disabled child might take the message about broken bodies?

I’m convinced all this obsessing over cushioning kids from every ill in life is actually causing them to be anxious, as they don’t build up resiliences bit by bit - they’re totally sheltered and then BOOM they realise the world can be quite scary.

Isn't the whole 'it's like going to sleep' or attaching it only to illness cushioning it though? For many people, it's not like going to sleep at all - it can be very painful, sudden...not everyone gets the whole laying down and slowly breathing less and less until gone. That's a very fluffy version of death to me.

I think simply discussing death as an end, that everything dies, that no one knows when it will happen and the processes around death in an age appropriate fashion is far more showing how scary the real world is than saying than saying it's like going to sleep and not waking up cause the body is broken. Plenty of us live full lives with our broken bodies, and some people die with the just the slightest thing off or for reasons we cannot yet understand.

I can't see why you were annoyed with her tbh. It's much better for children to realise that death is a part of life, in an age appropriate way obv. Any 7 year old knows about death, even if just from books, cartoons etc. I really don't understand why you would not have a normal conversation with death when relevant with children.

Hence why I said to insert ‘because their body is broken’.

Again, that doesn't mean much to a child - a 'broken body' could mean many a thing to an especially anxious or literal young person.

It’s bizarre the way in which every conversation with your child on MN is expected to be to the level of a psychiatrist or something.

It's very easy to explain to a child what death is without resorting to empty, confusing niceties or sounding cold and clinical. Death is a fact, much like telling a child where babies come from without resorting to 'special cuddles' or 'found your sister under a cabbage patch' silliness.

How anyone thinks people are being neurotic and causing their kids anxiety but supporting telling them that sometimes people just go to sleep and don't wake up is beyond me.

Not entirely sure what you’re mortified about. He’s 7, shouldn’t be babied and at that age he’s old enough to understand the concept of death and it should be conversation that should be had with him.

Not too sure why you’d think he’d be worried you’d die?

@BrumBoo

Hence why I said to insert ‘because their body is broken’.

Again, that doesn't mean much to a child - a 'broken body' could mean many a thing to an especially anxious or literal young person.

It’s bizarre the way in which every conversation with your child on MN is expected to be to the level of a psychiatrist or something.

It's very easy to explain to a child what death is without resorting to empty, confusing niceties or sounding cold and clinical. Death is a fact, much like telling a child where babies come from without resorting to 'special cuddles' or 'found your sister under a cabbage patch' silliness.

Go on then, what’s your suggestion?

@BungleandGeorge

IME children can understand the concept of death just fine without euphemisms or likening it to anything else.

Exactly this. One of my kids' much loved teachers at pre-school died when my youngest was 4. Playgroup closed for the day and most of the parents attended the funeral.

Even at 4, my youngest was able to comprehend that she had died and he wouldn't see her again, yes it was sad, it was OK to ask lots of questions about it, and that sometimes when people are really sick, the doctors try their best but still can't make them better.

I hate euphemisms like passed, or moved on, or went to sleep and didn't wake up, or whatever else nonsense people tell their children.

did you never see Bambi, The land before time, Wizzard of Oz, Watership down or any other childhood film?

Death has been taught to kids throughout history because its a part of life they face, its only these very recent generations that wrap kids in cotton wool.

I remember visiting a family where great grandma was dying at home, and the great-grandchildren (4 and 2, I think) were regularly brought to visit, sit on the bed etc.

Then when she died, the children were told that she had gone away to be with great granddad, who had died before both children were born. I remember thinking at the time, that was not a good thing to say to them. Because the obvious questions are, are they coming back, can we go and see them?

People die, that means they are not coming back, and children need to learn this. If religious belief is part of your life, then share it with your children. If it isn't, you might choose to tell them that "some people believe" they go to heaven, or you might not. But don't try and protect them from the knowledge that death happens, and it is (at least as far as we know,) permanent.

Yes, they may get anxious that it will happen to you - or to them. I had this with one of my nieces, after her younger sibling died (cot death). Am I going to die too? Is mummy going to die? Is daddy going to die? Is other sibling going to die? I told her that everyone dies, but usually when we are very old, and it was just very very unlucky that younger sibling died like she did. It's very unlikely to happen to her or the rest of the family any time soon.

When my grandma (DC great grandma) died I told DD who was 7 but not DS (3) as I thought he was too young to understand.

I told DD that grandma had died because she was very old and her body stopped working and yes, I told them she's gone to heaven as that is my belief. I said we wouldn't see her anymore and that was sad to explain why mummy was crying.

Of course I forgot that DC talk to one another! I walked in on DD telling DS the exact explanation that I gave her. Afterwards she checked he'd understood. 'So DS do you understand what dead is?' And he gave this priceless answer 'yeh. Dead like a dinosaur.'

I guess he was a bit mixed up with extinct but he had the general idea

Death has been taught to kids throughout history because its a part of life they face, its only these very recent generations that wrap kids in cotton wool.

I also very much agree with this. I am looking into my family history and back in the 19th century, child mortality was rife. Most children would either lose one or more siblings during their childhood, or most definitely have friends whose siblings had died.

It's only been very recently in terms of history that child mortality has reduced, that women aren't routinely dying in childbirth, and that people aren't dying of TB, or typhoid, cholera, smallpox, polio....

We had this conversation with DS aged 3 after he asked what happened to Stoick in the How to Tame Your Dragon sequel. (Spoiler!) I told him that sometimes when people get very old, or very sick or very hurt, doctors can't help them and they have to go away forever and can't come back, but we still remember them and think of them. That worked fine, and we've added to it over time. He had realised that I will die and worked through that as part of it; we've discussed it, and it clearly does make him a little anxious, but that's part of childhood also. Children can't be protected from negative feelings. They're also a part of life as inevitable as death.

She isn’t being at all unreasonable. People die. My kids have understood this since they saw some roadkill and we had a chat about how everything dies in the end.

I think I'm a bit paranoid about traumatising him!

I think you're more likely to traumatise him by not being open and honest about death. It's a fact of life. Albeit a sad one. But it shouldn't be hidden, then it becomes something even more worrying.

DS is 5 and we talk about death with him quite openly.

There's plenty of good resources available to help parents explain death to a child. Child bereavement UK is a good starting point.

www.childbereavementuk.org/telling-a-child-that-someone-has-died

If you fail to teach them that people die and it’s normal, you’re setting them up for a horrible shock that they aren’t equipped to handle.

Marie curie provide a good list of children's books to support with explaining death to a child.

www.mariecurie.org.uk/help/support/bereaved-family-friends/supporting-grieving-child/books-about-death#booksforchildren

Go on then, what’s your suggestion?

What, to explain death as it is? We've never hid it from our children, we talk about people who we knew but have died. For example, my husband was talking during dinner about his grandfather and our eldest asked 'are talking about Grandad N?'. No, we were talking about daddy's grandad who died. He was very old, and isn't here anymore which makes daddy sad but we still like talking about him. Little and often, so when we come across death in real life, it's not an overwhelming experience.

We've had chats about what happens when we die, we have talked about that most people die when very old but some (like one of my parents) get sick with an illness that doctors cannot make better. These illness are not like having a cold or poorly tummy like he sometimes has, and when someone is very very ill the doctors will always try their best to make someone better, sadly (but not often) it doesn't work and that person dies, their life ends, their family will be very sad they can't see or speak to them anymore. It's a mixture of telling the truth, being factual in an age appropriate way and not giving any sort of false hope that their beloved one is still alive in some way or is just having a nap they can't wake up from (which is real nightmare fuel for anyone).

@AdaFuckingShelby

I agree. I wish people wouldn't use euphemisms e.g. Passed. Passed what? A test? People die. It's a fact of life, it needs to be acknowledged for everyone's sake. It's what makes life precious.

This.

Sorry, to clarify my last post and 'we said he's not here anymore', we did use the word 'died' and always do when speaking of a person who's dead.

@BrumBoo

Go on then, what’s your suggestion?

What, to explain death as it is? We've never hid it from our children, we talk about people who we knew but have died. For example, my husband was talking during dinner about his grandfather and our eldest asked 'are talking about Grandad N?'. No, we were talking about daddy's grandad who died. He was very old, and isn't here anymore which makes daddy sad but we still like talking about him. Little and often, so when we come across death in real life, it's not an overwhelming experience.

We've had chats about what happens when we die, we have talked about that most people die when very old but some (like one of my parents) get sick with an illness that doctors cannot make better. These illness are not like having a cold or poorly tummy like he sometimes has, and when someone is very very ill the doctors will always try their best to make someone better, sadly (but not often) it doesn't work and that person dies, their life ends, their family will be very sad they can't see or speak to them anymore. It's a mixture of telling the truth, being factual in an age appropriate way and not giving any sort of false hope that their beloved one is still alive in some way or is just having a nap they can't wake up from (which is real nightmare fuel for anyone).

See I think this is really confusing.

They might assume once a person gets ‘old’ (which in a kids mind is probably 30s lol) then they die 🤷🏼‍♀️

Or if you say their life ends, they might ask where they’ve gone, or ask to get a better doctor etc

It’s a big philosophical question and frankly even we don’t have all the answers.

I think the cycle of life stuff etc is nice, as they say on Avatar ‘all energy is borrowed and eventually we have to give it back’

Why were you and your mum so ashamed that he was sad she had died? Surely that's natural reaction?

I don't understand the embarasment reaction. Or was it some else other than his reaction that was mortifying?

Gosh, I feel like you’re very lucky if this hasn’t come up before! My father and fil both died before my kids were born. We have always talked about them and that they were poorly and died. Eldest will often ask a serious question about them and I will try to answer honestly and age appropriately. She will usually then respond with something like ‘can I do some drawing’ or ‘can I have a biscuit.’ I think it’s best to be open and normalise them asking questions, and I think her quickly moving on to the next thing shows she is able to process and ask questions without being traumatised!