Given women tips to “stay safe” following sexual attacks in my area - AIBU to be annoyed by this?

[brokenspoon]

Sadly several women were sexually assaulted in my local area last week. The local authority have sent out an email first of all stating that the police is investigating, however then follows a long list of “tips” for women to stay safe, including:

• not travelling alone at night
• using taxis rather than walking
• making sure your phone is fully charged

For some reason this has angered me. I loathe the language around violence against women. Messages like this I believe place the responsibility with women, rather than the attackers. Like when we get attacked it is because we were walking out alone, or because our phone wasn’t charged. Which of course isn’t true. Women get raped because men choose to rape them.

To me it smacks of “it’s her fault because she was drunk/wearing a short skirt”.

Am I unreasonable in feeling this way?
What should such a letter say instead? I appreciate the local authority is unlikely to sent out a letter with tips telling men how not to rape, although frankly that would probably be more appropriate!

@Pumperthepumper

And it's not really about the competence or otherwise of female officers to do their job. It's about highly dangerous and manipulative (often psychopathic) offenders who have raped and murdered, being fully aware that there is no male staffing presence between the hours of x and y - and I'm telling you with certainty the worst of the bunch will exploit that for all it's worth. And it wouldn't end well for the female staff on shift. Sometimes, it's just the presence of male officers alone that deters these men from further offending.

@LucieStar

So then we need to look at systems we can put in place where a group of female officers attend prisoners together.

Most prisoners are attended at least in pairs anyway if there's an issue. But you'd still only have females to put hands on. And with my knowledge of these environments and the level of risk these men pose (mostly towards women), I'm saying quite strongly that I wouldn't want to be part of an all female restraint team for a sex offender who knew there were no male officers around and could try his luck. Unless you've worked on the inside of a male prison, it's impossible to know what that would feel like.

I have actually! Although not as a PO, admittedly.

I still maintain that female officers are just as competent at their jobs than their male colleagues. It’s incredibly sexist to suggest they’re not.

[quote LucieStar]@Pumperthepumper

And it's not really about the competence or otherwise of female officers to do their job. It's about highly dangerous and manipulative (often psychopathic) offenders who have raped and murdered, being fully aware that there is no male staffing presence between the hours of x and y - and I'm telling you with certainty the worst of the bunch will exploit that for all it's worth. And it wouldn't end well for the female staff on shift. Sometimes, it's just the presence of male officers alone that deters these men from further offending. [/quote]
So why have women in that job at all then, if men are much more suitable?

@Pumperthepumper

I agree that would be an incredibly sexist comment and that's why I haven't made it.

It's not to say that men are more "suitable", as such, but that when you are in an environment that houses the most risky and dangerous men of all of society, there will 100% be an increase in offences against female staff without the deterrent of male officer presence. Here's a small example - I've witnessed male sex offenders expose themselves to female officers, stripping off everything in their cells and shouting "go on, fucking restrain me now then, you fucking bitch" when they get angry that a woman had dared give them an instruction. What de-escalates this? Male officers arriving at the door of the cell. Because the offender doesn't feel threatened by the woman; but he does by the men. So he reigns it in, puts his clothes back on and stops behaving like an aggressive arsehole. That's one small example. Incidents like this and worse would escalate hugely if there every single evening, male prisons were staffed only by females.

Another reason that female officers are important, of course, is for female prisons. Female prisoners often have a history of abuse and trauma and understandably don't want male officers putting their hands on them if restraint is needed.

I've worked in both male and female prisons, I've seen the value both male and female officers bring to both. I wouldn't be so concerned about an all female staff team in a women's prison. But in a male prison? It's a genuinely scary prospect to me based on what I've seen.

@brokenspoon

Apologies for derailing - this isn't about staffing of prisons! Went slightly down a rabbit hole there...

[quote LucieStar]@Pumperthepumper

I agree that would be an incredibly sexist comment and that's why I haven't made it.

It's not to say that men are more "suitable", as such, but that when you are in an environment that houses the most risky and dangerous men of all of society, there will 100% be an increase in offences against female staff without the deterrent of male officer presence. Here's a small example - I've witnessed male sex offenders expose themselves to female officers, stripping off everything in their cells and shouting "go on, fucking restrain me now then, you fucking bitch" when they get angry that a woman had dared give them an instruction. What de-escalates this? Male officers arriving at the door of the cell. Because the offender doesn't feel threatened by the woman; but he does by the men. So he reigns it in, puts his clothes back on and stops behaving like an aggressive arsehole. That's one small example. Incidents like this and worse would escalate hugely if there every single evening, male prisons were staffed only by females.

Another reason that female officers are important, of course, is for female prisons. Female prisoners often have a history of abuse and trauma and understandably don't want male officers putting their hands on them if restraint is needed.

I've worked in both male and female prisons, I've seen the value both male and female officers bring to both. I wouldn't be so concerned about an all female staff team in a women's prison. But in a male prison? It's a genuinely scary prospect to me based on what I've seen.

[/quote]
And the solution to this is not support all-female teams and look at ways to keep them safe but instead make sure the men are always there so they can do their jobs?

Or stop women working in male prisons?

*And the solution to this is not support all-female teams and look at ways to keep them safe but instead make sure the men are always there so they can do their jobs?

Or stop women working in male prisons?*

The solution is both to support females working in male prisons to keep safe and make sure some of your staff team is male at any given time.

Your last sentence wouldn't be a solution for me, no.

@LucieStar

*And the solution to this is not support all-female teams and look at ways to keep them safe but instead make sure the men are always there so they can do their jobs?

Or stop women working in male prisons?*

The solution is both to support females working in male prisons to keep safe and make sure some of your staff team is male at any given time.

Your last sentence wouldn't be a solution for me, no.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree, I’m afraid.

It’s rampant sexism to claim professional women can’t do the job they’re paid to do unless they’re with a man.

@Pumperthepumper

It's an interesting discussion but I fear we are derailing ... I'll just end by saying - when I was behind a door with a male prisoner talking to them, do you know what I felt massively reassured by? (And I'm aware this might make me sound like a "pathetic" woman, but bear in mind I'm a woman sitting in front of a 6ft 4 muscular male sex offender, with full knowledge of his risks and what he's capable of, talking to him about his offences). What made me reassured enough to do my job every day, was the knowledge that there were 2 male officers right outside that door if he tried anything, and the reassurance they'd just given me 5 minutes earlier that any concerns at all just press my alarm and they'd be straight in there.

Without them outside that door? Honestly, I wouldn't have sat there with that prisoner.

It’s rampant sexism to claim professional women can’t do the job they’re paid to do unless they’re with a man.

To say they can't do it would be, yes. And as I've said repeatedly, I haven't made that claim.

I've said based on my own experiences and knowledge of male offenders and what motivates and deters them from reoffending, it would be safer for them to do their jobs with male officers present too.

@LucieStar

It’s rampant sexism to claim professional women can’t do the job they’re paid to do unless they’re with a man.

To say they can't do it would be, yes. And as I've said repeatedly, I haven't made that claim.

I've said based on my own experiences and knowledge of male offenders and what motivates and deters them from reoffending, it would be safer for them to do their jobs with male officers present too.

Well, that’s not the fault of the women. So surely the way round that would be not to claim they need a man there, but to look at ways to keep them safe.

Hi I’m the op, sorry in was busy with the children but I’ve just caught up on the thread. Thanks everyone for sharing, even those who thought I was being unreasonable😅

Far more helpful to send women an offer of a free attack alarm, details of a subsidised taxi service they had vetted, and a hot line number to call if feeling threatened.

@Pumperthepumper

Oh I completely agree. But then we are back to the ideal world versus reality argument. These men have been taken off the streets because they pose a grave risk to others. They don't stop posing that risk in a prison - they're just more contained, posing a risk only to other prisoners and prison staff, as opposed to the rest of the public. But they still pose that risk.