Re 17 year old DSS

[Blankscreen]

17 year old DSS lives with us full time he a good boy and he a fully integrated member of the family before anyone accuses me of being the wicked step mother

He turns 17 in May and Dh and I (family finances so joint decision) have said that we will buy him a car and pay for his insurance for his birthday and Christmas presents this year we will obviously get him a few extra bit but the budget is blown by the car.

Our budget is circa £5k for both and we have been looking at what option we can get for a car. DSS wants a VW up which all seem to be more expensive than our budget and he is now just moaning about the fact that he doesn't like any of the other cars this has really annoyed me

He gets £135 a month allowance and on top of that we pay for his phone £56 month and in non covid times gym membership and give him money for lunch at college. Again in non covid time we pay for him to do his hobby which is an additional £129 a month.
Our cleaner has recently left and I said to DSS did he want to do it and I would pay him the same £14 an hour as he will need to run his car etc. ( I'm not talking about the toilets) but the other jobs and he said no

We also have 2 dogs and i've offered to pay him to walk the dogs a couple of times a week so its one less thing for me and Dh to do. Doesn't want to do it

I feel like he is a spoilt brat . Dh is bloody fuming and told him that he needs to stop buying crap with his saved pocket money and he is going to have pay for his driving lessons and provisional licence.

I'm now feeling a bit mean but he is just so spoilt and has literally no idea about the value of money (which is our fault) and was saying yesterday he will take his car to be cleaned once a week instead of doing it himself

How would you deal with this and getting to stop being so bloody lazy!!

It's difficult because you have already offered him this huge amount of money for a car/insurance. I'd tell him he can have the car once he passes the test but that he has to fund 50% of the lessons and test cost. If he doesn't pay 50% it comes out the car budget.
I'd tell him to get quotes for different cars/insurance and any money over an above £5k he has to fund. He should also pay for insurance himself after the first year (incentive not to drive like a lunatic).

Regarding the chores he needs to learn how to live as an independent adult- you need to sit down and list all the house jobs and just divide them up equally. This shouldn't be 'paid' work per se, but since you already give him a huge allowance you could say that he needs to do his fair share otherwise he forfeits his free money.

When he moves to a flat his flatmates aren't going to pay him to clean the shower.

@Blankscreen is your DSS intending to go away to university? If so, now is definitely the time to teach him about budgeting and basic life skills like cleaning, laundry and cooking. One of my DCs has had to explain to several spoilt uni housemates similar to your DSS, that it’s offensive to leave food to go rotten and to never clean up after yourself after using the bathroom or kitchen. Don’t let that be your DSS. He really shouldn’t be treated as though he is too precious to clean a toilet or walk the dogs. Nobody likes living or working with a spoilt, lazy brat and it’s your job as his parents to make sure he can develop into a decent individual. Good luck!

@KingdomScrolls

Why on earth is a mobile contract £56 a month?? He needs a job to run his car and don't give him a choice, you get whatever suits your budget and he should be bloody grateful. He gets £135 allowance £129 for hobby plus gym £40/£50 a month plus the extortionate phone bill. You give him the best part of £400 a month £5k a year for nothing and wonder why he acts like a brat. He's more than old enough to get a job.

The price of his mobile was the first thing that struck me too 😂😂😂

OP, I ell him the budget and tell him to find the car. You really need to watch the car insurance, it can be incredibly high as I’m sure you know.

My DD is the same age, I pay her phone contract (£7 month sim only - she bought the handset with birthday money 2 years ago) and college lunches and I've just changed her allowance. She used to get £40 per month and I'd but her toiletries and some clothes, now she gets £80 but is expected to budget for her own toiletries and clothes. She thinks that's fair and appreciates that it's helping her learn to budget.

She works 8h a week in a pub (currently furloughed). We paid for a chunk of driving lessons for her but she's paying the rest from her wages.

She doesn't do much around the house, but she has a 1 hour commute to college and 2 of her A levels are extremely coursework heavy, so she's not just lazing about.

She cooks a couple of times a week and hoover's occasionally, but she'll do more when not at college.

I actually talked to her about a car with her 18th coming up but she doesn't want one, as she doesn't think she needs one and the upkeep would be so expensive. She'd rather save for uni.

OP you need to cut his allowance down, as you have now suggested, so he has to do the work you've offered, or get a job. Places are starting to advertise now ready for reopening.

Does he really need a car? Do you live in the middle of nowhere?
Like most people, I’m sure, I passed my driving test but didn’t buy a car for several years because I couldn’t afford it. I was a student at the time, and had to wait until I graduated and had a full time job before I could buy a car.

Although his hobby is expensive, I agree with those it’s fairly normal for parents to pay for hobbies, food and keep, and I would probably pay for that without thinking. However, car is a luxury not an essential. Taking the helmet cost out of the car budget is a good first step in teaching money management.

Do love the image of DH driving back and forth to same petrol station three times to fill up the cars.

How do you expect him to find a job when you give him everything handed on a plate?
I was working from age 12 doing paper rounds, age 14 pub work, washing up and serving food, 15/16 working in a hairdressers, then in a retail shop working weekends whilst at college, this money paid for my phone and bus pass.
You really aren’t setting him up for life and there is no incentive for him to get a job when he receives so much money for doing nothing.
It is yours and your DH fault though for facilitating this.
To be honest, I’m absolutely shocked at this post!

I worked from age of 18 even when I was at uni, used public transport to get everywhere. Got first car at 28 when I was pregnant because I didn't want to deal with pushchair on a bus. Where does he need to go with a car?

Are you paying for his driving lessons too?

I think you and your DH have really buggered up here. You’ve not given him any of the life skills that he’s going to need to live independently. He has zero understanding that if he wants a nice car and expensive hobbies then he has to work hard to pay for them. You’ve effectively raised an absolutely useless lump who would be utterly incapable of looking after himself if, God forbid, anything happened to you or your DH.

I think you need to crack down hard. He does his fair share of chores (not just the occasional dog walk - he does the dishes, the hoovering, the toilets, a bit of everything) and if he doesn’t, then he gets no allowance. He gets a job to run his car and his allowance stops. He needs to learn how to budget his petrol allowance for the month. If he has to get to college then he can’t afford to be driving around town of an evening. If he decides driving around aimlessly takes priority then he has to get the bus to work.

In the nicest possible way, you have created this by over indulging him. Maybe reevaluate everything he is getting. He needs a job

He is massively indulged, My DDs are 21 & 19 and never got anything like that. They didn't need gym membership; try living in a rural area at the bottom of a hill. If you go anywhere on foot/bike it's good exercise. They are both now at uni. They do their own catering and both manage to feed themselves for less than £20 per week, all meals.

I bought their phone handsets outright for birthday presents then put them on SIM only deals. DD1 hardly uses any data; her iPhone 11 costs £6 per month. DD2 & I use more; we pay £9 each. They pay their own now they are over 18 but before that, the cost came out of their £50 allowance. We used to be with EE but they cut the signal at home. Vodafone put up a nearby so I checked which cheap network uses their masts. You don't need to go with the big operators.

Both worked in an ice cream shop from turning 16. They still do shifts in their holidays. They do babysitting and DD1 has worked the whole summer at the end of her 1st & 2nd year for which she was paid. We simply cannot afford the sort of money you give your DSS every month.

My indulgent father wanted to buy DD1 a car on condition that he could also use it when he was staying with us. DD wanted a VW like her mate. Dad suggested a Kia due to the warranty. I took DD, her cello & saxophone to the Kia garage to try them in some cars. The salesman had a DD the same age & knew exactly what to say to get her interest. DD is tiny but could easily reach the pedals etc & it took all the clobber. Then we went to the VW garage. The smallest car which fitted in the instruments was the Polo and she could barely reach the pedals. The car came with virtually nothing. DD is nobody's fool & realised for the money, the Kia was a much better buy. Next time my dad was staying, we took a 2yr old Kia on a test drive. It was a lovely car and we bought it there & then. I sorted the insurance to include my dad.

OP show your DSS what else is out there. Get him to try different vehicles in comparison websites for car insurance. Once he passes his test, the insurance will shoot up, so he's probably better off getting something very cheap now until he has 2 or 3 claim free years behind the wheel. After that, if he wants the VW, he should be financially self-sufficient.

Wowsers. This is a great read for someone who is struggling to get the money together to pay for just 10 lessons for daughters 18th! People buy their kids 5 grand cars and obviously get them extras. Mind blown.

You've already offered to buy him a car and pay for driving lessons insurance and so on. He is used to having a fortune spent on him for no return so obviously is going to rebel against being asked to do jobs. Don't buy the car. Say you've thought it over and the expense would be too much. And get a cleaner and dog walker with the money you save.

I dont understand why your paying him £135 allowence, thats almost the same I made having a job at that age (shit 'job' but forced to take it by the job center).

A car is a gift and a big one, he gets what he gets... I have never known anyone get a say in what their first car is, those lucky enough to get one (which is fairly rare in itself) got their parents or elder siblings hand-me-down as they took it as an opitunity to upgrade.

That's ridiculous. You are doing him
no favours whatsoever and not teaching him the value of money!!!!

My friend bought her son a car for his birthday. He passed his test and then had to sell it as he couldn't afford the insurance for the next year. Oh never mind ... I'm sure you will pay for it!

Wouldn't it be better for these changes to come from his dad?

That’s an insane amount of money he is getting.

I have a Ds aged 17 & a dd aged 19. Now we are a bit lenient on Ds because he has autism and he finds life challenging in lots of ways but he absolutely has to help around the house.

He and dd(when she’s home) use the main bathroom in the house and they are responsible for cleaning it, toilet and all.

Ds gets £20 per week pocket money plus lunch money. That covers socialising, clothes other than basics, sweets and luxury food eg he chooses to order a Dominies rather than cooking a pizza from the freezer. Dd used to get a bit more £30 but she was living away from home for college and she used to buy all her own toiletries & sanitary items whereas Ds uses the family bought generic shower gel.

With the help of my dad we bought her an Hyundai i10 for her 18th. It’s a cracking little car. She got lessons for her 17th. Her grandparents pay her insurance. She has a part time job to pay for her petrol. A big reason was that dh had just surrendered his licence due to a medical condition. When she’s home she helps out a lot giving lifts and helping dh care for his mum with dementia. We give her petrol money for that.

Ds doesn’t have a part time job. He’s tried but is unsuitable for some of the work available.

What you pay for phone is ridiculous. My two have voxi which is £10 per month though dd chooses to upgrade hers to a £15 per month.

It sounds like he’s become a bit spoilt. At one point we had that danger with Ds (my parents are very wealthy) but we explained to my dad why always giving money/providing everything they asked for didn’t always help them. Ds recently wanted a MacBook that would run specialist music software. We gave him money for Xmas and he saved up himself the rest but went for a nearly new one to bring the cost down.

@Malbecfan Out of interest, which model Kia? DD will be learning soon and is under 5ft...

£56 on a mobile contract? 🤣 They saw whoever signed up for that coming!

He is a product of the way he’s been raised, he doesn’t understand the bit where you earn the money because he lived a life where that was never a caveat.

Sit him down, raise everything you said in your OP and tell him it all points to him being an utterly entitled, unpleasant spoiled brat. Tell him it's not his fault - it's yours, and it's you that have so far pretty much failed him in a few big ways. You've learned your lesson and feel pretty gutted by his attitude, so from here on you're going to try and undo it.

No lessons.
No car.
No nothing.

You've done him no favours giving him everything he's wanted - it's just helped him turn into one of life's takers.

All talk of cars and big presents are off the table until he:

• starts doing either the dog walking or cleaning in exchange for his allowance. Otherwise that stops.
• the phone contract - tell him to renegotiate it HIMSELF - because you'll be cutting your contribution to £30 a month for it;
• tell him to start looking for jobs HIMSELF.

Tough love and when he screams tell him you love him and so his future happiness is more important to you than his instant gratification.

Would the KIA fit a digital piano? (Thinking for Ds)

said that we will buy him a car and pay for his insurance for his birthday and Christmas presents this year we will obviously get him a few extra bit

Why obviously? A car and insurance isn't enough? No wonder he's a brat!

Question is: Do you want him to be a likeable responsible adult? A decent member of society? A good husband and father? Because if you do then feeding his level of entitlement by giving him everything on a plate isn't the way to go about it.

£5k for a first car is a ridiculous amount.
My son bought his own first car at 17 for £800 out of his own savings.
Your SS sounds very spoilt and unappreo