Putting an upright piano on top floor flat

[Khtchkn]

Preparing for a diploma hopefully end of this year. Grew up with a Yamaha grand piano, stopped for 10 years now back again but using a digital piano as no space for a grand in our flat. It’s really not working I think (piano teacher agrees). I’m wanting to hire an upright piano until my exam at the end of this year. I knocked on my neighbours door below me to ask but no answer, will pop a note through tomorrow. I told the neighbour I’d play for 1hr/2hr daily anytime between 9am-7pm as I have my 2 year old asleep. Also I won’t be playing twinkle twinkle little star or fur Elise constantly. I have done my grade 8 and preparing for a diploma recital! I will pop a letter to my neighbour downstairs but wanted to hear other ppls opinions . Hopefully they won’t care and will agree to it, as you’re allowed do whatever is your normal routine during the hours that aren’t too early or late. Just thought I’d be a decent neighbour and ask before

Good luck OP, (even though you disparage trombones!), but, as someone mentioned upthread, it's a top floor flat.

Luckily I have happy neighbours enjoying my playing, and not some miserable ppl on here. Have a lovely day everyone

I think that comment says a lot about you. I'm not a 'miserable' person. I'm friendly, helpful and easy going but I would find having to listen to a neighbours piano really really irritating. People find different things irritating and, as is clear from this thread, it's really common for people to find piano playing annoying. I think by insulting anyone that does it shows you to
be unkind and selfish.

Sorry haven't RTFT but just wanted to point out that the choice doesn't have to be acoustic or digital. I have a hybrid. It is a real acoustic but you can use it as a digital with headphones if you need to. I live in a flat too and I play sometimes without the headphones but if I am practising scales, going over a few bars again and again, I always put headphones on. I think it is only fair especially as so many people are working from home nowadays.

@Khtchkn I've been reading with interest as I'm having the same dilemma - if the noise is getting a bit much, can you add a felt or other fabric scarf over the strings as a second muffle? Changes the sound of the piano but should be totally fine for practising on! I've also heard about lino mats and soundproof matting (the kind that you might put under a carpet when you install it) being really useful.

So happy for you about your neighbour's response! Some people just have no idea... you definitely do not sound selfish at all to me - you sound considerate but like you want to be able to continue doing something that makes you, you!

Hearing your neighbours playing music for a couple of hours a day during sensible hours isn’t antisocial IMO.

It’s a wonder we have any musicians in this country at all the attitude some grumps have to music. Half the homes in the country used to have a piano in the 50s and 60s.
And yet I highly doubt they were all doing several hours a day in flats, especially during a lockdown when people are stuck at home.

Most Instruments are fairly noisy. They need to usually be played out in order to reach a good standard. Not all children or aspiring musicians have the luxury of a £1 million detached house.
No wonder the arts are increasingly dominated by the upper middle classes.
People reasonably objecting to people deciding their desire to play their instruments for hours a day isn't the reason the arts are dominated by the wealthy.There are many reasons why the arts are dominated by those with money but having consideration for neighbours isn't one.

I'm from a working class background and played instruments since young childhood and have never had the need to subject my neighbours to several hours of playing a day because I'm not an arse. My parents were very good at teaching consideration for our neighbours. It didn't stop me reaching a high standard either.

As a musician you know that rehearsals don't involve playing beautiful music for hours; it involves doing the same bars and sections over and over until they're right. It's not like playing for hours is graciously offering a beautiful concert for the neighbours. It's subjecting them to the same sections over and over and over again, which is fine in short bursts, but only someone exceptionally arrogant would consider their rehearsal time to be a blessing for the neighbours, or reasonable for hours on end.

She called a few hours later and said “I hear your piano playing and it’s wonderful. I would love to hear it louder. Even if you would play 10hrs a day I wouldn’t mind”.

Did she. Aye.

She called a few hours later and said “I hear your piano playing and it’s wonderful. I would love to hear it louder. Even if you would play 10hrs a day I wouldn’t mind... shall I get my banjo?

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels

Squirrels obviously knows literally nothing about music or musicians.

You don't get a very high standard if you're not your own harshest critic.

Ha ha @StickWaver. Listen to yourself! 😂

Oh dear. You really don't like being told you don't know as much as you think, do you...

you're a selfish twat

Oh dear. You really don't like being told you don't know as much as you think, do you...

Ha, nice try. I have never pretended to know anything about music. You sound like a pretentious snob. I'm glad I'm not like you.

I'm from a working class background and played instruments since young childhood and have never had the need to subject my neighbours to several hours of playing a day because I'm not an arse.

Nor are you a professional, performing musician in that case. I do have the need to practise several hours a day. How else will I pay my bills?

I don’t believe my practice is a blessing for the neighbours. I also don’t consider my neighbour’s all-night crying children, 3am wooden floors thumping, my other neighbour’s weekly loud music until midnight, or building work, blessings. But they’re part of life and I’m no more entitled to a noise-free apartment than they are.

Honestly, people on MN wouldn’t survive one day in a country where 90% of the population lives in flats. I come from such a country. Detached Victorian houses in the middle of the city don’t even exist. People get on with it and aren’t so precious.

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels

Oh dear. You really don't like being told you don't know as much as you think, do you...

Ha, nice try. I have never pretended to know anything about music. You sound like a pretentious snob. I'm glad I'm not like you.

Oh dear. I'll leave you to your delusions...

@CMeredithC

I'm from a working class background and played instruments since young childhood and have never had the need to subject my neighbours to several hours of playing a day because I'm not an arse.

Nor are you a professional, performing musician in that case. I do have the need to practise several hours a day. How else will I pay my bills?

I don’t believe my practice is a blessing for the neighbours. I also don’t consider my neighbour’s all-night crying children, 3am wooden floors thumping, my other neighbour’s weekly loud music until midnight, or building work, blessings. But they’re part of life and I’m no more entitled to a noise-free apartment than they are.

Honestly, people on MN wouldn’t survive one day in a country where 90% of the population lives in flats. I come from such a country. Detached Victorian houses in the middle of the city don’t even exist. People get on with it and aren’t so precious.

This. Very much this!

Nor are you a professional, performing musician in that case. I do have the need to practise several hours a day. How else will I pay my bills?
Umm, hire some rehearsal space so you're not subjecting your neighbours to the same sections of pieces for hours on end. It's a work expense.
Being a professional musician doesn't give you a I'm special card that means you're beyond showing consideration.

I don’t believe my practice is a blessing for the neighbours. I also don’t consider my neighbour’s all-night crying children, 3am wooden floors thumping, my other neighbour’s weekly loud music until midnight, or building work, blessings. But they’re part of life and I’m no more entitled to a noise-free apartment than they are.
Again, big difference between normal living noise (eg children, people walking on their floors, occasional building work) and hours of rehearsal time each day.
If your neighbour is regularly playing loud music till midnight then that's antisocial.

But let's lose the hyperbole. Nobody is talking about "noise free" living and you know it.

Honestly, people on MN wouldn’t survive one day in a country where 90% of the population lives in flats. I come from such a country. Detached Victorian houses in the middle of the city don’t even exist. People get on with it and aren’t so precious.
You're determined to turn this into a class issue with your million pound properties and detached Victorian houses 🙄

Showing consideration for your neighbours isn't a money issue. It's an attitude issue.

"Umm, hire some rehearsal space so you're not subjecting your neighbours to the same sections of pieces for hours on end. It's a work expense."

Ahh. Musicians are all earning vast amounts of money now.

Real world people, please...

Umm, hire some rehearsal space so you're not subjecting your neighbours to the same sections of pieces for hours on end. It's a work expense.

I’d love to know how I can claim it as a work expense when I’m employed by a company. I’d also love to know where I can find these rehearsal spaces where I live. There’s 7 professional orchestras with 150 members each, plus choirs, pianists, freelancers and non-classical musicians in my city. I’m not in the UK and there are no ‘rehearsal spaces’ here. Even if there were, not even London would be able to put up with so much demand. But then, music is state-funded here. Yes, the tax payer funds the arts 😮 That sounds like something you’d also be against.

Like I said countless times upthread, my neighbours and I have reached a solution which allows me to practise at home. All this inconsideration I’m showing towards them is completely hypothetical.

Again, big difference between normal living noise (eg children, people walking on their floors, occasional building work) and hours of rehearsal time each day.

I like how you omit certain parts of my post . All-night crying children. Thumping, not walking on floors. The building work isn’t occasional. It’s been about 5 months now. None of those are normal living noises. I put up with them but I don’t see why me practising should be more annoying that the neighbour’s kids wailing. He didn’t choose to be a musician, I didn’t choose to have children. But we’re both grown up adults and can understand each other’s circumstances.

And it absolutely is about money. I’ve studied on top of playing music for years, and have done enough research to agree with the PP who said this is one of the reasons why classical music is dominated by the upper classes. Claiming it isn’t is just a flat out lie, when there are studies and research that confirm it. People aren’t educated to appreciate music, or any kind of art and culture, for that matter. It shows on this thread, but sadly we’re used to it.

@StickWaver

"Umm, hire some rehearsal space so you're not subjecting your neighbours to the same sections of pieces for hours on end. It's a work expense."

Ahh. Musicians are all earning vast amounts of money now.

Real world people, please...

I was scrolling through another thread earlier today where someone was reminding a musician they could claim for concert clothes against their taxes as work expenses. They’d omitted the poster’s closing sentence ‘I haven’t worked for a year and can’t even afford new clothes right now’. The poor woman probably hasn’t paid a penny in taxes this year, but somehow she can claim against them

StickWaver
They're not. Many of my musician friends aren't rolling in it. It doesn't mean they do most of a working day on the same pieces and sections in flats so their neighbours have to deal with it.

And it absolutely is about money. I’ve studied on top of playing music for years, and have done enough research to agree with the PP who said this is one of the reasons why classical music is dominated by the upper classes. Claiming it isn’t is just a flat out lie, when there are studies and research that confirm it. People aren’t educated to appreciate music, or any kind of art and culture, for that matter. It shows on this thread, but sadly we’re used to it.
I've already said there's a number of reasons the arts are dominated by those with money. I just don't buy your claims that people expecting some consideration for their neighbor's instead of all day rehearsals and noise is the reason.

People are more than capable of appreciating music and art without needing to accept their neighbours spending several hours a day playing the same things all week.

You seem to have this idea that anyone who doesn't accept it's reasonable to play for hours on end most days when you're in a flat is somehow anti music, doesn't appreciate the arts, they're the reason that arts are dominated by the rich.

Nobody need a million pound house or a detached Victorian property in a city (as you present it) to show consideration for their neighbours.

As I said, consideration for neighbours is not a money thing. It is an attitude thing. (For example, your neighbours playing loud music until midnight are being antisocial. That would be unreasonable whether they were rolling in money or dirt poor. It's an attitude problem).

There are considerate people in flats and inconsiderate arseholes in luxury townhouses. It's not the money that makes them considerate or not.

@CMeredithC - you're starting to sound like you believe you're part of a persecuted group! You chose your career and part of that career means playing the same sounds on the same instrument over and over and over again. To you, it's 'practising your art'. To others, it's like torture. The OP and some others on here seem to believe that it's a privilege for their neighbours to have to listen to them practising their instruments for hours on end and give shitty responses to the very suggestion that not everybody enjoys the same things. The OP saying that anyone with a brain cell can tell the difference between a pianist of her calibre (!) practising and heavy metal music is obnoxiously pretentious. It's still just noise. No matter how talented she believes herself to be, and believes that her neighbours said they wish they heard it louder for ten hours a day she is bordering on delusional if she genuinely believes that people want this uninvited noise in their homes, over which they have no control, all day every day. And the proud mums who think their super talented children are just a pleasure to the neighbours as they practise over and over again are quite frankly embarrassing themselves. Music is noise. Some people find it pleasant, some people hate it.

Fantastic op. I’m so pleased for you. Good luck with your exams. I love my yamaha. It has a practice pedal. 🎼🎵🎹

Beseigedbykillersquirrels
I've picked up on that superiority attitude too, as if it's fine for nice classical musicians (and I fall in that group) to play for hours in flats, but not for electric guitarists.

You sum it up perfectly with some people like music, to others it's noise.

When we live near others we make a choice whether to behave with consideration (whether that's 4 hours of piano daily, a full day rock band rehearsal every weekend, allowing our children to crash and bang and scream, having tantric sex marathons whilst screaming at the top of your voice etc.) or not to behave with consideration.

Whether that consideration is shown comes down to someone's attitude.

Music is noise. Some people find it pleasant, some people hate it.

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels I couldn’t agree more. I fully understand that some people don’t enjoy music, in the same way I don’t enjoy everything under the sun either. Some posters have kept implying though, over and over again, that my attitude is wrong and I must show no consideration for my neighbours when I practise at home. That’s what I’m arguing against, because it’s simply not the case. And yes, the OP did sound obnoxiously pretentious like you say. I’m not even sure my colleagues appreciate my level of playing, let alone the neighbours 😅 They probably couldn’t care less.

Totally agree with Lola. I was brought up to appreciate music. I play the piano. I don’t think expecting that everyone should accept acoustic piano playing for hours from a neighbour is reasonable whether you are a beginner, a teacher, a professional musician or whatever. I would hate it, so it is not about appreciation of music, and I would not inflict it on others.

@emilyfrost

She called a few hours later and said “I hear your piano playing and it’s wonderful. I would love to hear it louder. Even if you would play 10hrs a day I wouldn’t mind”.

Well that’s a load of bollocks 😂😂😂

Congrats to you OP on getting grade 8 and going for a diploma. Also congrats on the amicable response from your neighbour. Win-win situation.

As for the rest of you, what a bunch of sad bastards. At least the OP isn't going to be playing Hear'Say, Westlife, Hanson, Crazy Frog or any X-Factor shite! Get some musical taste, all of you!

I’m flattered guys! Can’t believe you think it’s unbelievable my neighbour gave me that word for word compliment 🤣 If no one ever complimented someones playing at diploma level then something is not right there... sorry, but that’s a fact! Don’t you have a talent? And have you never been given a compliment before?
Mines the piano, and I love that! Hence me pursuing my passion! Ok I really am going to stop commenting now, I didn’t realise there’d be 100+ comments! I have to wake up early tomorrow and practice the piano 😜😜😜
(And again thank you to the other ppls kind comments!! xx)