Putting an upright piano on top floor flat

[Khtchkn]

Preparing for a diploma hopefully end of this year. Grew up with a Yamaha grand piano, stopped for 10 years now back again but using a digital piano as no space for a grand in our flat. It’s really not working I think (piano teacher agrees). I’m wanting to hire an upright piano until my exam at the end of this year. I knocked on my neighbours door below me to ask but no answer, will pop a note through tomorrow. I told the neighbour I’d play for 1hr/2hr daily anytime between 9am-7pm as I have my 2 year old asleep. Also I won’t be playing twinkle twinkle little star or fur Elise constantly. I have done my grade 8 and preparing for a diploma recital! I will pop a letter to my neighbour downstairs but wanted to hear other ppls opinions . Hopefully they won’t care and will agree to it, as you’re allowed do whatever is your normal routine during the hours that aren’t too early or late. Just thought I’d be a decent neighbour and ask before

@Andante57 yes! I go practice at a church on their great Yamaha grand piano but they are charging £10 a day, same price as if I were in a piano studio. If I practice once a week, it’s £40.... that is the same price for me to hire an upright piano!

@CMeredithC definitely holding me back!

@Sgtmajormummy that’s exactly what I’d do! I would do 1hr on acoustic and 1hr on my digital for when my son naps/early morning/late evening. So I don’t see 1hr a day with the neighbour being a problem. They would even tell me what time suits them anytime from 9am-7pm! We’ll see what they say!!

@Andante57 sorry I mean once a week for a month is £40, same as hiring an acoustic piano *

@CMeredithC

In this case, you need to arrange another practice venue.

And what would these venues be, during a lockdown? I don’t play the piano, which can be found relatively easily in churches, halls, schools... I play an instrument that’s 90lbs, 2m high and very hard to transport. I also don’t own a car.

This is a complete non-issue for me, as I have no problems practising in my flat. But others need to take this into account when trying to find an alternative venue. It’s not as easy as showing up at the Barbican and asking for a practice room

Oh that’s ok then. I’ll get my stone carving tools out and let my neighbours know it’s fine.

Oh that’s ok then. I’ll get my stone carving tools out and let my neighbours know it’s fine.

If you’re a stone carver (which I doubt you are), you would be fully entitled to keep doing your job, as long as you abided by the council regarding noise levels and quiet times.

I didn’t sign up to have someone WFH at my previous flat. We both rented the flat knowing one of us was always in the office 8-6, and the other was at home some days. That gave me the freedom to practise when I wanted, according to my erratic and irregular work schedule. Then Covid hit and we were both forced to be at home together. I didn’t have a right to stop my flatmate being there, and I couldn’t say to her ‘find an alternative venue to do your zoom meetings please, I didn’t sign up for this’. These are exceptional times.

I still welcome your practical suggestions on venues I could practise at. You’d be doing us musicians a huge favour by opening our eyes to the possibilities we haven’t thought of yet

How much would it cost to hire a silent piano? They cost a lot to buy (around £10k), but they're halfway between a Clavinova and an upright.

Real strings so it plays like a normal piano, but at certain times you can change over and it uses optical sensors to play the music through headphones / speakers etc.

If you’re a stone carver (which I doubt you are), you would be fully entitled to keep doing your job, as long as you abided by the council regarding noise levels and quiet times.

Yes, and given that I can hear your piano/“large undescribed instrument” (maybe just say what it is?) from my flat, that doesn’t abide by council regulations of “reasonable” noise.

I'm a musician myself, so understand your need. My concern is are the floor joists strong enough to take the weight of the piano? Is 2 hours practice a day going to be enough? I'm not sure it is and I'm not of the school of thought that anything less than 4 hours practice a day is slacking! Is there anywhere in your flat you can place it to any neighbour disturbance is minimised. eg not near a chimney breast, on an outside wall? Part of me thinks the best solution might be to upgrade your current keyboard for everyday, and use the Yamaha grand weekly as it appears you are now. Uprights are not without their limitations as I'm sure you know.
To the other posters, I live in a detached property these days, but in all my years of living in flats and terraced houses, nobody ever complained to me or asked me to stop/pipe down. If I ever got chatting to a neighbour, whether over the road or closer, they always mentioned how much they enjoyed listening to us playing.

I seem to be in the minority but I wouldn't mind at all if a neighbour was playing the piano (if they were playing it well, like you would be!) I'm a pianist myself so I completely understand that a digital one is just not the same at all. I've never been able to get on with them. They neither feel nor sound anything like the same.

Look at the Yamaha silent pianos.

They are fully acoustic - they are proper pianos with strings and hammers.

But they very cleverly do something with the sound when in silent mode.

www.yamahamusiclondon.com/Pianos/Silent-Pianos/

Dd plays at a similar level and we stipulated 10am until 8pm to her. She plays piano, violin, and clarinet plus sings so quite noisy! Neighbours say they can hear but it's not intrusive noise as the walls are decent and we aren't a flat (no way could we get a piano upstairs!)

I would love being your neighbour OP but you'd have to put with me sending you requests (I'm into Listz these days but wouldn't mind Schubert)

Ps my friends are music teachers and they live in a semi, imagine being their neighbours... all those kids! Music is reasonable as long as not late at night

We have a Yamaha 'silent' piano.

Sounds great when in accoustic mode - but also really useful for occasional silent practice.
DS1 is now studing piano at conservatoire so it'll perfectly good enough for ABRSM or similar diplomas.

@Andante57

Church halls do have (rubbish) pianos and we are closed to the public, there's a pandemic on don't you know! Honestly some of the comments.... if we have to put up with screaming children then why not quality music!

The "thud thud" noise from an acoustic piano is pretty much the same as from an electric piano - that part of the action is kinetic. It's probably slightly louder from an acoustic, as they are designed to magnify the sounds, but otherwise there will be little difference.

I would be more concerned if you were thinking of practicing at 3 in the morning, otherwise I don't think there should be a problem. I've live in many flats, and noises from neighbours are a fact of life. Consideration as to the timing and volume is key.

Musicians have a right to live as well as anyone else. Non-musicians may not understand the necessity of practice, but maybe they should think themselves lucky that you play piano and not trombone...

Like Glitterblue, I understand the limitations of a digital, and I’d also enjoy having a neighbour who plays at your level. Part of the fascination for me is being able to hear the practice that goes into the final performance! It’s only decent and neighbourly to ask. I hope your neighbours turn out to be enthusiasts! A huge thick carpet or rug and foam tiles on the walls can make a significant difference by damping the vibrations felt in adjacent flats.

This is the system we had retrofitted onto DS’s study piano.

We found a guy in DS’s university city who specialises in bringing orphaned pianos back to working order and selling them at a reasonable price to students and enthusiasts.
I didn’t want to give up the family piano and this guy was cheaper in the long run than renting. Plus the piano is truly personalised.

if we have to put up with screaming children then why not quality music!

It might be quality music if the OP were to perform for her neighbours, but practicing the same thing over and over is more akin to listening to a dripping tap.

I play an instrument and have agreed with the neighbour that I will play between 7-8pm if I'm playing (but not every night). I've also told them when my lessons are so they know I'll definitely play that evening. I told them not to hesitate to knock if it's too loud.

We agreed the best time between us that suited both our schedules. Living next to someone who plays an instrument can be a total headache. Literally.

The large range of hours when you will potentially be playing, coupled with 2 hours a day EVERY day is far too much.

Rehearsal rooms are crying out for clients at the moment. You should rent a professional space. You can't expect your neighbours to suffer to accommodate your and your child's needs.

I would feel murderous if I had to endure someone else playing an instrument for several hours a day regardless of how good they are at playing it or the reasons why, moreso during lockdown if I can't even escape it.

I simply wouldn't care if its your hobby or your job or whatever, it's not fair and it encroaches on other people's lives. I doubt you'd want to hear your neighbours listening to heavy metal for several hours a day which is what I'd start doing (at a time that suited me) if one of my neighbours did that.

I live in a top floor flat in london and my lease allows piano playing at social times. There are actually quite a few musicians in the development.

My SIL is a professional musician, and she used to practice for 6 hours a day (flute).It was a Victorian terrace. The neighbours were both musical though...

In a flat? No.Your poor neighbour.

A friend teaches piano - he recommends students use an electric keyboard and headphones!

Much as I love listening to live music (we had a professional pianist living below for a while and he used to throw iron the windows and play show tunes) I would go mad listening to someone practicing.

YABU given the level you are playing at, so I will disagree with many posters. However, there must be a balance which is what you are trying to engage your neighbours on. Split practice using the digital and an acoustic? Silent piano option as suggested by an earlier poster? Maybe see if there’s somewhere local to try one out? I do understand the need - digital piano with weighted keys isn’t quite the same nor do the instruments have quite the same resonance. A good sounding piano is so much nicer and for me, I need to feel the music not just hear it (albeit it’s a classical guitar so not quite as loud but will also practice with it muted when family is asleep - detached house)