Putting an upright piano on top floor flat

[Khtchkn]

Preparing for a diploma hopefully end of this year. Grew up with a Yamaha grand piano, stopped for 10 years now back again but using a digital piano as no space for a grand in our flat. It’s really not working I think (piano teacher agrees). I’m wanting to hire an upright piano until my exam at the end of this year. I knocked on my neighbours door below me to ask but no answer, will pop a note through tomorrow. I told the neighbour I’d play for 1hr/2hr daily anytime between 9am-7pm as I have my 2 year old asleep. Also I won’t be playing twinkle twinkle little star or fur Elise constantly. I have done my grade 8 and preparing for a diploma recital! I will pop a letter to my neighbour downstairs but wanted to hear other ppls opinions . Hopefully they won’t care and will agree to it, as you’re allowed do whatever is your normal routine during the hours that aren’t too early or late. Just thought I’d be a decent neighbour and ask before

You probably got no answer from your neighbour because they're a shift worker and were asleep. So this may not go well.

I have lived in flats with all manner of noises from above and below but personally a piano wouldn’t bother me, and I think the fact that leases ban them is positively draconian (as is the entire leasehold system but that’s another story).

Clearly you’re not selfish if you checked with the neighbour, and personally I would not mind this for an hour a day at a reasonable time. Clearly I’m a minority though.

@CMeredithC

Well, I leave in a flat and practise 5-6h a day. I’m a professional musician and whereas before March 2020 I wouldn’t regularly be at home, I now sometimes go weeks between projects that allow me to go into work, so what choice do I have? It’s practice or I might be out of a job soon.

It really depends on your neighbours. At my old flat where I was up until Christmas, I shared with another lady who was WFH. I organised my practice schedule around her calls and meetings. At my new flat I am free to play 9am-1pm and 3-9pm and I do so. The neighbour below me loves hearing the music. The other neighbour with whom I share a wall is also WFH and has said he would like some quiet time at the weekends so I don’t do more than 3h then. Everyone is understanding of the current situation.

Most musicians have also had to WFH this year, we can’t just stop practising indefinitely in case it annoys the neighbours. Talk to them, explain and ask if they would be bothered/are there any times they’d prefer you not to play. I have never had an issue with my neighbours, but I’ve been lucky as well as open to communication and working around each other’s needs. I also have plenty of colleagues who, in contrast, have been through nightmares trying to practise at home so much, they’ve had to get the police involved who always sided with them as long as the hours were reasonable and the noise was below the legal maximum. It’s their job and they’re allowed to do it. Some have had to move as the relationship with the neighbours was really damaged. All of us mention the need for practice when we move somewhere new, though. I understand your situation is different.

I know this is not your job OP, but good luck with this. Talk to your neighbours and gauge the situation carefully. They might really enjoy it, or you might need to reach a compromise somehow.

5-6 hours a day?! In theory I love listening to piano music but that’s putting your neighbours in a position where they have given listen to it for hours on end! Would you be ok with loud noise from your neighbours for that length of time?

Just read it’s not a piano but still, that’s a lot of time your neighbours are listening to you play.

Piano player here as well OP, I live in a flat and play daily, its fine. I had to cancel my diploma assessments because of covid, so I’n going to be starting that again soon. Two hours a day really isn’t enough to gain youe diploma, are you able to increase those hours?

My friend is a professional musician and lives in a flat, plays piano, synthesizers, sings etc, not a problem.

My former colleague who is a professional pianist uses an elevation system with rails over a carpet, and that greatly reduces the sound. You might try some of these tips:

livingpianos.com/how-to-make-your-piano-quieter/

The neighbors would be able to tell you if there are times when they are not home. Personally. I would not mind at all hearing the sound of the piano.

Hopefully your neighbour is in today, so you will get an answer from them. I think this is one of those questions MN can’t answer.

You could try and rent a good upright Yamaha piano with the integrated silent system with head phones. Our friends who are professional musicians have a Yamaha grand with the silent system. So actual piano sound with headphones

YABU. We all work from home, so the hours you suggest (9am-7pm) would directly impact our meetings. Sound travels and is a massive distraction and inconvenience.

You acknowledge that you will not disturb your child for one hour whilst they sleep.

Please show the same courtesy to your neighbours.

My DH is practising for a diploma. It drives me mad to be honest but I can put up with it because he's my DH. I hate hearing the same bit time and time again. Resentment would grow quickly if it was a neighbour. Even if they say yes, they might not know what they're agreeing to.

Listening to someone practice playing piano is a pretty awful, repetitive noise so YANBU. this is your hobby and you can do it elsewhere even during the pandemic. You just don't want to.

I think that would be hugely inconsiderate to your neighbours. Nobody wants to hear you practice for two hours a day, no matter how good you think you are.

An upright piano is quite a sizable and heavy thing.

Modern flats are quite compact.

Can it get to your door. Can you get it from your front door to the room you want it in?

I would hate that, no matter how brilliant you are

And if I worked from home I'd hate it even more

My previous neighbours above me had a piano and they were top floor.

It wasn't so much the music that was annoying it was the thudding of the pedals, drove me mad.

Please don't.

Personally I’d say with a layer of Lino then a proper thick rug I’d be ok, but let your toddler at it and I’d be using every means possibly to get rid!

I live below the top floor flat. It’s like mental torture having noise you can’t control. Our neighbours don’t even play something like a piano ( thank goodness)
Perhaps you’ve never lived in a flat below someone or you would understand that you can basically hear conversations etc so a piano repeating for two hours would be awful. While I love the piano, I want to listen at a concert and to whole pieces and not to someone practicing and which is enforced on me at a time not of my choosing.
If you’ve asked your neighbours then why come on here? Is it so you can challenge the if they say they are unhappy? I hope not.

Literally nobody is as impressed with your piano playing as you are yourself. How would you feel if every time you start practising, your neighbours played death metal at a volume you couldn't ignore. Would you think this was unacceptable? It's exactly the same thing.

They might get a trombone and start to learn. Or a violin. Imagine how much fun that would be for 2 hours a day during lockdown.

YANBU. Just ask! I used to live next to musicians on either side of my house (pianist to the left, violinist to the right) and it was lovely.

The bit that’s selfish is putting your neighbour in a position whether they either have to be nice and accommodating and say yes, even if it would bother them really, or they have to say no, and many people find it difficult to say no because they’re nice people that don’t want to upset their neighbours.

People who live in flats shouldn’t be put in that awkward position in the first place, because it’s blatantly obvious that the majority of people won’t want to listen to someone else’s piano practice.

You can get an upright piano with a practice mode as used in the Royal Academy. Basically you lift the top up and there is a handle that places a layer of thick felt between the strings and the hammers. The maker is Reid-Sohn. The effect is to drastically quieten it.

If my neighbour did this I’m afraid I’d start blasting loud music through a massive speaker. I have one which is a mobile disco with lights, it’s great for reciprocally annoying selfish noisy people. Hopefully your neighbour feels able to say no, though I doubt that will stop you.

imo 2 hours practice is acceptable.
that's shorter than a football game!

put it on rubber mats / exercise mats though.

electric pianos are great, they can replace some aspects of learning piano. but at the level the op describes it's more than just the 'mechanics' of playing the right notes at the right time.

The issue you have is flats have different layouts and sound proofing so your downstairs and next door neighbours may not know your playing is tortuous to them until you start doing it.

I've lived next to a drummer and acoustic guitar player on different flats, and was actually the acoustic guitar player practicing that was a form of torture even though the drummer was louder.