Neighbour won't half in for fence

[thunderandbangs]

I spoke to my neighbour over the back from me about a year ago to see if she'd be willing to half in for the back fence (fence at back of her garden, fence at back of ours) and she said yes that would be fine and to give her a quote when we had it.

Then Covid happened so we have just gotten round to it. I went over to give her quote (150 each) the other night. She then said that actually the fence at the back was our priority to fix and pay for as the posts are on her side of the garden!

I said I don't think that's how it works and she said that the two fences at the left and right of her garden were her responsibility as the posts were in the neighbours garden therefore she gets the 'pretty' side of the fence meaning it's her responsibility. But as the fence at the back of the garden posts are in her garden and we get the 'pretty' side of the fence it is our responsibility.

She said she can't just go around halfing in for the upkeep of other peoples things and when the time comes she won't ask her neighbours to on either side either.

AIBU to think this is absolutely bonkers? Trying to find out if there's anything I can do to ensure she pays half as that is not how it works. She has a responsibility as well as we do.

All sorts of wrong info being given on this thread.

Whose side the posts on does not dictate whose the fence is.

Look at your deeds, both the plan and the wording for clues.

Buy her deeds online , it's only a couple of quid, to check what her deeds say....it might say it's her fence on her deeds.

But first get yourself across to gardenlaw.co.uk .....very helpful sticky threads there, plus when you post this question there you will have experts in boundaries answering you.

Londoner here. Almost no older properties around much of London show who the fence belongs to on the title plan or title register.

The Land Registry publish a document that quite clearly states that

"If the title documents are silent then in the case of a fence with posts or struts on one side the general presumption is that the owner on the side with the posts or struts owns it and is responsible for its upkeep".

www.landregistry-titledeeds.co.uk/files/information-guides/legal-presumptions.pdf

I cannot believe that people have turned that completely upside down with all this 'pretty side' nonsense!

Traditionally you are supposed to be polite and give the neighbours the good side.

It just boils down to whether she's happy with a falling down fence. We're always gone halves to maintain neighbourly relations.

Nothing at all to do with posts/pretty sides.

Though because I paid for the fencing all round to stop their kids damaging my garden (using it as shortcut and breaking the previous fence/plants/pots etc) and to keep my dog in, damn right I had the pretty sides.

It’s irrelevant whether she owns it , you own it or you both own it she is under no obligation to pay for a new fence or part of a new fence , if you want it then you pay and it’s also irrelevant whether it’s falling down .

Check the deeds my mum is actually responsible for all the fences around her garden as per deeds

Convince her all you like, but fences aren’t jointly owned, whoever owns it on the plans replaces it.

Just erect a fence behind the broken one on your actual boundary OP and pay for it yourself.

And now I feel like a dick for giving my horrible neighbours the good side

You don't know what her financial circumstances are and it's none of your business.

Quite. Loads of people have suffered terribly financially because of COVID - and plenty were struggling before it even kicked off. of course, we don't know her circumstances, but I can just imagine somebody counting the coppers they can find lying around the house hoping they can manage to buy a loaf of bread or gas top-up before pay day - and meanwhile, somebody from next door is determined to browbeat them into instantly handing over £150 just to make a fence look prettier, because they want it.

Even if she's loaded, it's still entirely up to her whether she wants to pay for the fence to be replaced or leave it up to you to do and pay for whatever you want, if it's important to you.

The only way I can see that you might have a case could be if she has a dangerous dog or something that keeps coming on to your property, but you haven't mentioned anything at all like this.

Maybe it's just me, but I really can't fathom how one side of a boring old functional fence can be a thing of beauty whereas the other side is a hideous monstrosity, just because it happens to have a few additional posts up against it.

As a PP said, nobody ever installs a fence on the front of their property with the 'pretty' side facing their house, for them to gaze at - and it's hardly like passers-by on the pavement or motorists are going to care to complain, is it?

I live in an "end" house and my deeds say I am responsible for the fence on the non-neighboured side of the property. My pushy neighbour on the other side asked me to go 50% with her on a new fence. I pointed out that I was not responsible for that particular fencing run and she would have to cover it herself. She does not understand the concept that you are only responsible for one run of fencing. Otherwise it would mean I was paying towards fencing on BOTH sides. The fence was old and in poor condition and she has been very territorial about it in the past.

The neighbour got in a gang of "workmen" in but instead of buying new fence panels she ordered them to re-cycle some from other parts of her property and they did not fit. I had her "workmen" on my garden grinding concrete posts (no noticesm goggles or safety gear) until I threatened them with the police and they moved to her side. In other words the workmen turned my garden into a building site to work on components of her fence. No permission was asked or given. So I could hit her with a bill for use of my property.

Subsequently the neighbour triend to get me to go halves with her for the new dividing fence, despite my already having refused. She said it was "not fair" that she should bear the entire cost. When she kicked off I told her I would need to see documentation citing the cost of the materials, labour etc produced by a legitimate VAT registered company before I was able to consider an appropriate contribution. We both know that she is unable to produce such documentation as so many panels were not new but recycled.

The fence she commissioned is in a different style from my other fencing and looks scruffy with all the mismatched panels. I have already asked my gardener to quote for a new fence run of my own (matching my others) a few inches in from the scruffy one. It will hide that from my sight and be just high enough so my neighbour cannot peer over. Im just waiting for the end of the month/end lockdown for him to get started.

High fences make for good neighbours.

The neighbour is not correct. You need to check the deeds to see whose responsibility it is.

FFS stop talking about fence posts and pretty side. It means nothing. The land registry site clearly says this and you have to check the deeds as others have stated.

@DenisetheMenace

I think it means the posts show on the neighbours side: no-one puts their nice, shiny new fence up with the posts on their own side.

That's how ours was put up, which I thought was crap, but DH claimed it's the polite thing to do and always done that way. Knowing him, he probably told the fence people to do it that way.

@andapartridgeInABearTree how do you get the deeds for £3? Seems to be £20 when I look. I need some for similar reasons to the op.

It's a bit like curtains, they always used to be hung so you could see them from outside but not any more I wonder if it's a symptom of increasing selfishness. Yes it used to be standard to have the pretty side facing the world but most people these days think since I'm paying I'll look at the nice side.

Still doesn't change anything and the op can't force her neighbour to pay

You need to check the deeds. My neighbours paid for the fence between our driveway as they wanted a certain height and style to keep their dog in. They wanted the pretty side to them and they were paying so that was fair enough. Technically it is my boundary but I don't have a dog and wasn't bothered about a fence. Anyone looking at the fence in the future would think I had paid for it, but I didn't and if it blows down, I won't necessarily be liable for the repair, since they put it up. Safer to always work from the deeds.

Do you live in the UK OP? There are many places abroad where both parties pay half for the cost of a new fence. In England anyways, it seems that someone 'owns' the fence and its their sole responsibility for its upkeep and paying for a new one. Would you contribute half to the cost of our neighbours driveway, hedge, extension etc? If you 'own' the fence, why would you neighbour pay???

I'm still very unlcear how this works in a grid pattern residential area, because we seem to own the entire fence along the right side of our house, even though there are 2 houses along that length. Plus, we own the one the fence at the end, like yours. I'm unsure though, why that neighbour doesnt own the end of their garden?

Check your deeds- it should be in there.

Oh no. Ignore me. I just fell into the google trap. That's not a govt website. I'm so sorry. I'll ask MN to delete.

Check with the land registry. That's the only way of knowing. This "pretty" side thing used to be an unwritten rule donkey's years ago, but nowadays it means nothing. I own a new build & maintain fences with pretty & ugly sides, so it means nothing. Don't approach your neighbour about this until you have the proof in front of you.

No-one on here can say if you’re right or wrong, you need to check your deeds.

In our old house we owned the fence on the right, as you looked down the garden. The back fence was a shared fence.

In this house, I've just looked at the deeds, the cost to replace fences is shared, it states it quite clearly. We only have the post side in our garden.

It’s amazing how people are happy to give incorrect advise. 🤦🏻‍♀️ You have to wonder what other shite they believe is true

As many PPs have already stated you need to check your deeds. In theory, she should also check hers just in case they are contradictory. They shouldn’t be but it does happen. Sometimes the deeds don’t show who owns the fence and sometimes it will be jointly owned.
You also need to check for any covenants ( restrictive covenants - not sure of terminology?) that might exsist that cover the fences.