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Original poster

AIBU to ask if we can have a sensible discussion here about Shamima Begum?

520 replies

StephenBelafonte · 18/03/2021 12:39

I just don't understand the hostility towards her by the british government. Surely as a 15 year old she was radicalised and brainwashed.

I genuinely don't understand why the government is so harsh towards her. Unless they know something we don't. I feel so sorry for her.

OP posts:
HeartsAndClubs · 19/03/2021 06:21

Thing is, as a rule if someone commits a crime abroad then they are sentenced abroad and only then are they returned to the uK.

Similarly we don’t deport foreign criminals until they’ve served their sentence.

So why should SB be brought back now before she’s sentenced for the crimes she’s committed in Syria? Let the Syrians try and sentence her if need be. If that sentence involves execution then so be it. Don’t want to be executed? Then don’t commit crimes in a country which holds the death penalty.

Doona · 19/03/2021 06:48

Thing is, as a rule if someone commits a crime abroad then they are sentenced abroad and only then are they returned to the uK.

She hasn't been charged with any crimes. She's not in custody. That's the whole point, she's being punished in an extreme way without any kind of trial.

Theunamedcat · 19/03/2021 06:58

@Doona

Thing is, as a rule if someone commits a crime abroad then they are sentenced abroad and only then are they returned to the uK.

She hasn't been charged with any crimes. She's not in custody. That's the whole point, she's being punished in an extreme way without any kind of trial.

What punishment? She has had a makeover? Logically I know that was for the cameras and she would cover herself back up or be beaten but between that and her regrettably blase attitude im thinking stay there until you learn your lesson because it feels like a knee jerk reaction to me she didn't want to come home when she lost her first or second child she didn't come home after seeing heads in bins she didn't until they started losing
Icecreamsoda99 · 19/03/2021 07:02

Highly recommend Guest House for Young Widows: among the women of ISIS by Azadeh Moaveni. I'm not convinced if she was white there be a different response, I think if she had come out straight away and said she was completely wrong and had been lied to she might have got public sympathy.

Doona · 19/03/2021 07:11

but between that and her regrettably blase attitude im thinking stay there until you learn your lesson

Like a short-term, conditional suspension of citizenship? Yes, that sounds more humane than what she has now.

bacchanalwoman · 19/03/2021 07:13

I think she needs to be tried and convicted - I think we need to be clear that coming back here does not mean getting away it means facing US and OUR justice because she’s our problem. She’s a child raised in this society she’s ours to deal with. Frankly she’d be in jail for a long time. If another country requests extradition then of course we respond accordingly. We’ve brought back people whose espionage killed hundreds where they deliberately shared state secrets and put other British citizens in danger serve time here and dealt with them harshly enough so why not the same? In a civilised society people have trials not the court of public opinion.

Brefugee · 19/03/2021 07:20

Exactly. There is currently a major issue with white boys being groomed by far right neo nazi types. If this happened to your teenager, would you not think that the grooming had played a part?

And there are some excellent de-radicalising programmes to address the problem of grooming by the far right. There may be one for ISIS returners, I've never checked.

I think we should save our compassion for the women who were her victims.

Well, i don't know about you but my compassion isn't a zero-sum game. I believe SB belongs in a secure unit for pretty much ever. But i still feel sorry for the potential that the 5, 10, 14 year old SB could have been if her life had taken a different path. And yes compassion for her, her life is effectively absolutely shit, whatever happens now, until she dies. I'd rather it was shit in prison though, than being left where she is to build up boiling hatred and resentment and who knows what will follow from that.

FOJN · 19/03/2021 07:22

I think she needs to be tried and convicted - I think we need to be clear that coming back here does not mean getting away it means facing US and OUR justice because she’s our problem.

How would this work in practice? As far as I can tell we would only, possibly, be able to prove she left the country using a stolen passport. How would we gather sufficient evidence of her actions in Syria to charge her? Would we even have jurisdiction to charge her for crimes committed in another country? Do we have the right to interfer in the judicial process of another country? She has been assessed as national security risk, how would we legally detain her without a conviction?

Thisisworsethananticpated · 19/03/2021 07:24

I’m with you and always have been
They are treating a silly teenager as a terrorist
Caliphate on Netflix gives a very good picture of why these girls do this
I’m not proud of our govt for this

mynewernew · 19/03/2021 07:43

@Thisisworsethananticpated we need to separate the two issues silly girl is the one that might act stupid when drinking too much. She showed psychopathic tendencies she should get a lifetime sentence or being sentenced.

TheStreamThatStoodStill · 19/03/2021 07:57

While I am extremely sympathetic at the sight of someone whose life has been destroyed (arguably at their own hands), I don't believe that SB should be allowed to return to this country. She is dangerous, and there is no evidence that she can be effectively rehabilitated (people can lie in therapy you know). I do believe that we must also consider the financial cost to this country. The hundreds of thousands of pounds (if not more) that would be spent on rehabilitation, a trial, possible imprisonment, and should she find mercy, a new identity and life, while vulnerable and needy people slip through the cracks every day and receive nothing, is deeply troubling.

MiaowMiaow99 · 19/03/2021 08:00

This is probably the reason the UK wont have her back. Legally we probably couldn't do anything, and with her views, she'd be free to do god knows what.

How would this work in practice? As far as I can tell we would only, possibly, be able to prove she left the country using a stolen passport. How would we gather sufficient evidence of her actions in Syria to charge her? Would we even have jurisdiction to charge her for crimes committed in another country? Do we have the right to interfer in the judicial process of another country? She has been assessed as national security risk, how would we legally detain her without a conviction?

Supersimkin2 · 19/03/2021 08:05

Has anyone found out how all her three children died yet?

Remmy123 · 19/03/2021 08:05

Her views are still the same, when she spoke about seeing severed heads in the bins down the road she didn't look upset or show any emotion!! Surely if your views had changed you would express how disgusting and barbaric it is?!

We do not want people who agree and support that regime in our country - don't feel sorry for her!!

Dingleydel · 19/03/2021 08:09

How do we know she is truly dangerous until she had been through a de -radicalisation programme? She appears to have done some terrible things, but we don’t know under what duress. She was most likely in fear for her own and children’s lives. All we have to go on are one interview she did, where she had been thrust onto the international media platform, had no guidance on how to deal with journalists, and was still living in a camp with her baby with isis supporters alongside. I the latest interview she’s given for part of a film she does appear to be remorseful, explains that she was in fear for her life and a lot of what has been written about her isn’t true. For instance I assumed she was from a fairly radical Muslim household. It appears her family aren’t even Muslim. There were always insinuations in the media that ‘she must have been radicalised at home’ and I bough into that too. From her latest interview she appears as a foolish and rebellious girl with a tricky parental relationship who was looking for somewhere to belong. She even mentions how a lot of her friends were Muslim and they introduced her to it, and it goes from there. So my question is how do we know which is the real Shamima unless she’s given a chance? I thought the U.K. might have learnt that treating vulnerable 15 year old girls as adults who can make their own choices is a dangerous precedent.

ExitChasedByAnImposter · 19/03/2021 08:15

@yeOldeTrout

People seem to enjoy hating SB.

I find it odd how British govt is desperate to keep SB out as enemy of the state. Keeping her out is sold as how to keep Britain safe. Meanwhile the Iranian govt won't let (apparent enemy of the state) Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe stay out of prison or leave Iran. Keeping Iran safe means keeping NZR locked up in Iran.

Sad world we live in.

Agreed. Also, it’s a very slippery slope of stripping people of their nationality, which effectively is used as a deterrent for BAME communities only, what would the deterrent be for white Caucasians?

Also, as she was initially underage, how was she able to travel without a legal guardian in the first place?

Alsohuman · 19/03/2021 08:16

@Thisisworsethananticpated

I’m with you and always have been They are treating a silly teenager as a terrorist Caliphate on Netflix gives a very good picture of why these girls do this I’m not proud of our govt for this
But she is a terrorist. A self admitted one who has no remorse for what she’s done. My sympathy is reserved for the Yazidi people who have been the victims of the regime Begum supports.
Android18 · 19/03/2021 08:17

I'm a bit confused by the posters saying she should be tried in Britain. Do you actually believe the would be convicted for any of it?

The only evidence is her own words, and that could be so easily recanted and played down as making it up because her wanted ISIS 'clout' for want of a better word, or that she was coercively controlled - I mean she probably was, but still...

She would never see the inside of a cell for any of the horrendous things she purports to have done.

In essence, she'll come back here, need surveillance at huge expense, probably radicalise more vulnerable people, potentially be involved in an attack. That's not something I am happy to have on my conscience.

mynewernew · 19/03/2021 08:19

@Android18

I'm a bit confused by the posters saying she should be tried in Britain. Do you actually believe the would be convicted for any of it?

The only evidence is her own words, and that could be so easily recanted and played down as making it up because her wanted ISIS 'clout' for want of a better word, or that she was coercively controlled - I mean she probably was, but still...

She would never see the inside of a cell for any of the horrendous things she purports to have done.

In essence, she'll come back here, need surveillance at huge expense, probably radicalise more vulnerable people, potentially be involved in an attack. That's not something I am happy to have on my conscience.

This hugely agree
BLToutanowhere · 19/03/2021 08:29

And yet people want 16 year olds to have the vote.

No sympathy at all. If she'd have shown any contrition maybe but she doesn't appear too.

She went over there of her own free will and now it's going badly wants back into to our free society. No, you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

HermioneMakepeace · 19/03/2021 08:29

LOL at people suggesting a de-radicalisation programme. The person has to want to change, which she doesn’t.

Stratfordplace · 19/03/2021 08:31

SB is not being punished by being in a refugee camp. Thousands of others are there too through no fault of their own. What makes her so special that we should repatriate her. She got their under her own steam. She’s using the media and manipulating everything, sorry but her prancing around in western clothing isn’t convincing me.
I want my family safe from the likes of her.

Bbq1 · 19/03/2021 08:37

@Supersimkin2

Has anyone found out how all her three children died yet?
What proof is there she even gave birth to three children?
Bbq1 · 19/03/2021 08:39

@Thisisworsethananticpated

I’m with you and always have been They are treating a silly teenager as a terrorist Caliphate on Netflix gives a very good picture of why these girls do this I’m not proud of our govt for this
"A silly teenager... " Are you for real?
sashh · 19/03/2021 08:40

Thing is, as a rule if someone commits a crime abroad then they are sentenced abroad and only then are they returned to the uK.

Not always, Richard Huckle was arrested using 'extraterritorial jurisdiction', he committed no crimes in the UK.