Bad experience at hospital today, do you think so too or was I being too sensitive?

[Sally61nm]

I'm under the care the oral surgery department of a large city hospital, the condition I have is acute TMD (chronic face and head pain basically)

I had an appointment there today for a review of my condition as my last appointment was cancelled in the middle of last year due to covid.

When I arrived the person who called me through wasn't the person I've been working with during my last two appointments, she wasn't welcoming nor approachable and actually had the wrong file to begin with. She thought I was somebody else who was there for something to do with their tongue.

I explained the history and she pulled up my file on the computer. She asked what was going on and I explained that despite physio and medication prescribed previously there the pain was the same and was so unbearable some days that it is impacting my ability to function properly, especially as I have small children I need to be on form for.

When it's at its worst it affects my (already poor) eyesight.

After a very rushed examination which she did only for the benefit of the student observing, she told me (and I quote) "there's nothing we can do, its a complicated joint and it's just how you are. You will have to learn to live with it"

Much to my embarrassment I started to cry at this point as i'd been waiting almost a year for this appointment, suffering daily, she just wasn't interested at all and wanted me to move along.

I asked to speak to the lady I usually see (the one who oversees the care of all the TMD patients) she reluctantly went upstairs to find her but as she was leaving told me that she wouldn't tell me anything different.

The dentist I've seen previously came downstairs and could see I was visibly upset, she was brilliant and long story short we have a plan moving forward. It turns out there's alot more they can do for me including botox and different medications to name two options.

I feel such a fool for crying as I'm usually very stoic, but I've been suffering for so long and saw this appointment today as something to hold out for as the original dentist (not the first woman I saw first today) is lovely and seemed determined to find a way to help me (and still is)

I'm not planning on making a complaint or anything like that but I was wondering what others think about the first dentist treatment towards me?

Definitely complain.

I've been in that same situation (different issue) and sobbed when they've said there's nothing they can do... only to find out that there's a whole heap of options.

Had one consultant tell me there was nothing on an MRI scan when even I could see it. Moved consultant and I was in for surgery within weeks.

On chronic pain, it's worth getting a referral done to a good pain clinic as it takes forever to get appointments. Some are very good, and there are all kinds of meds that non specialist doctors don't necessarily think of.

I'm one of the lucky % who find the anti-epileptic lamotrigine works really well on my nerve pain and with no side effects. Amitriptyline rather knocks me out. So if you find one doesn't work then try some others - some people find gabapentine is great... doesn't do anything for me. Very much horses for courses. Acupunture can also be really good.

Good luck with it all - living with constant pain is awful, but there are options so don't let anyone fob you off.

Do be careful with opiates - I spend 15 years on those including 7 years on SR morphine and eventually took myself off them all. The breakthrough withdrawal pain from the opiates turned out to be as much of a problem as the pain from the underlying issue. Much happier and in much less pain now I'm on different things, but would never have believed it at the time.

Glad you've had such good advice and felt able to complain OP, the way you were treated was simply not good enough. On a side note though stop feeling bad for crying, it was entirely warranted and, by the sound of it, necessary to get them to listen to you and realise how badly it's affecting you, stoic doesn't always do you any favours. I hope you can get some treatment soon and that it helps, it's awful being in constant pain

I have TMD and it is awful. The pain is present all day, every day. I had my appointment with oral surgery last week and they have booked me for a mri as I had told them I had done all the self help exercises and mouth guards for teeth grinding etc. The consultant thinks it is a functional issue and a problem with a disc at the joint. I was braced for them to fob me off and was crying with relief that they took me seriously, so I understand your upset and pain. I would complain if I was you

Hi OP,

I’m so sorry to hear this and the pain you are suffering with. I hope everything goes well with your pregnancy.

I am very glad to hear you are going to complain. The uncaring one’s attitude was appalling and shows absolutely no duty of care to you as a patient. Giving you incorrect information and making you feel like there is nothing that can be done when there is - How many other patients has she treated like this? Compassion is surely a basic requirement in a role like that.
By complaining you might help to change her behaviour in future which will hopefully benefit other patients. Plus she had a student with her, what kind of example is she showing them?

I really hope the plan put in place by the caring consultant works and you can get some relief from this pain in the near future

As an aside, my much loved Dad who was sadly terminally ill some years ago was visited on the ward he was on by the consultant. My Mum asked if he could be referred for physiotherapy to help with his mobility difficulties. The consultant said ‘he is a dying man you realise’. Basically saying why would I waste my time referring this patient for anything that might improve his quality of life. (Another doctor referred my Dad without a second thought BTW). My mum was disgusted by the consultant and as a family we were all heartbroken that Dad had to hear that when he was going through such misery.
We wrote to PALS on more than one occasion about this back and forth. We couldn’t be sure our complaint did much in the end but at least it was an acknowledgement of her behaviour. She did respond in one of the replies and said ‘she’d never before received a complaint like that from anyone in her career before’ which we simply didn’t believe. She then made some non-committal comment apologising if she had upset Dad with her words. The nurses on the ward who we spoke to after the event were well aware of her attitude. Whilst on the ward that day the patient next to Dad and his wife said they were going to complain about her too because she had been rude and uncaring to them as well. That’s 2 patients out of a bay of 6 on one day, so that tells you a lot.
Sorry to drone on, I just wanted to make the point that if people in these positions are not held to account they will keep repeating their unacceptable behaviour over and over again. Compassion costs nothing.

Complain. She gave incorrect advice and as other posters have commented, the next person in her queue might not be brave enough to fight their corner.

Well done for making sure you had a second opinion and I hope the treatments work for you. I get migraines so I know what 3 or 4 days does to you being in pain. I can't begin to imagine it all the time and with small children to care for.

Good Luck OP

I would complain about that. Keep it short and factual - her examination was cursory, her attitude was dismissive, and (most importantly) her clinical advice was incorrect, and could have resulted in you being discharged from the service and failing to receive appropriate treatment. In terms of action you would like the clinical lead for that department to review the notes and discuss your concerns with the staff member concerned, and you would then like a written response from the CEO.

Tbh it won't change her personality, but it might make her more careful in the future.

Complain. You and the rest of her patients deserve better care than she is providing.

You should complain so she doesn’t treat other patients like that

Shocking treatment, lucky you burst into tears but you shouldn't have to to get the care you deserve.
PALS are really helpful in my experience, probably the best experience I've had on the NHS which isn't saying an awful lot to be fair.

You should complain formally just and ask that she be retrained as there are options available, and instead of discussing them, she discounted your pain and told you to live with it. That's a serious problem.

I do think, with this condition where living with it without support is sometimes considered impossible, what she said could have amounted to an indirect death sentence to someone without your ability to advocate for yourself. That's really dangerous behaviour.

Don’t feel bad about complaining, just keep it factual and constructive.

Don’t feel bad about crying either. Crying is a form of communication. Other methods of communication had failed and crying communicated what you’d been unable to convey with your words and body language. In this instance it was completely appropriate.

@bloodywhitecat

I think her treatment of you warrants a conversation with PALS to be honest.

I was going to suggest this. They could be an advocate for you - I think 🤨

I would complain, too. I wouldn't complain over an abrupt manner, but the fact that she seemed to not be planning to do anything warrants a complaint, IMO. Especially because she was teaching someone else.

I had an awful experience with a trainee GP recently with my 10 month old, he told me there was nothing they could do and to go home. I cried too and the other GP stepped in and offered a solution that worked! A GP called me the next day to apologise and strongly encouraged me to make a complaint, they said it’s for the benefit of everyone so I’d say you should complain.

I can totally relate op. I have TMJ disorder too. It’s hell. My normal dentist referred me to the facial and oral surgery unit who said they could try a few things (one inc Botox!). Went to my app and he basically said there’s nothing he could do!

My jaw and head are so painful every single day. I live off ibuprofen which probably it isn’t good for me at all.

Not much help but I’m glad you got somewhere in the end.

I’m back down to the oral and facial unit for a wisdom tooth removal soon so hopefully I can ask for some help again. I’ve opted for a local to have it but worried I won’t be able to open my mouth wipe enough for them to get the bleddy thing out!

@notturningintopowerranger

We really appreciate constructive complaints at my workplace as it tells us where we’re going wrong. I’ve made a similar complaint myself and received a lovely letter back from the dr. Hope you’re feeling better.

Yes to this. Every concern or complaint is looked into and the service managers really appreciate knowing when things have gone wrong, it's so important. Where appropriate, issues reported by patients are fed back at 'lessons learnt' meetings (no patient names of course) and help to improve the service for everyone.

OP, not RTFT, but wanted to say I’m so sorry, they definitely didn’t treat you right and you handled it all wonderfully considering. How unpleasant. Anyone would have been upset by that, you’re not being too sensitive.

I would complain to PALS or to the original person you were seen by, if you have their details or maybe their secretary’s details. Or there will probably be an email address online for the head of whatever speciality you’re under. Yes, doctors are under pressure, but there is no excuse for this kind of heartless approach. And no excuse whatsoever for keeping it up once you were visibly upset. This was a person out of their depth who can benefit from some training.

I had something like this when I was pregnant with DD a couple of years ago: the stand-in obstetrician was flippant and curt, told me if I kept coming back with “no kicks” he’d have to take the baby out next time, just that (this is with a note about antenatal depression and anxiety and a high risk pregnancy). 🤦🏻‍♀️ I requested to see the consultant straight away, this was much better handled and we too got a plan. DD was born full term and well (important) and the hospital was sorry (far less important). What I did hear on the way out of the consultant’s room that awful day was an admin saying to the initial person I’d seen that this was the third crying woman that day and he needed to have a long think about his “manner”. I too am a stoic, do a “hard-nosed” job etc. It’s doesn’t matter when you’re the patient. Point being, this may well be part of a much bigger problem and speaking up could help solve it.

@islockdownoveryet my daughter is currently on a 4yr waiting list for an nhs orthodontist. Shes been popping painkillers and eating soft food for months.
We're just told to wait.

I work for the NHS and I would absolutely complain, her manner and approachability to a patient was terrible. That's not how we treat people!

I work in the NHS and sometimes I think making a complaint is the only way to change things.

I think any sort of dental pain is the worst there is (in my experience worse than a broken bone) including childbirth when at least you get a lovely baby at the end!

You look after yourself.

I would be very frank with your original dentist & tell her that her colleague would have been perfectly happy to show you the door & see you on your way in severe pain with no empathy & no follow up plan. Either she is not sufficiently educated & trained in her area if she didn't have knowledge of options for you or she has no interest in her patient's comfort & wellbeing...or perhaps both. But I would alert her Department about your experience with her.

I would definitely complain. She might (will more than likely) speak like that to someone else who hasn't for anyone else to call for to give a second opinion.

for got

Thank you all

I'm appalled at some of the experiences told throughout the thread. I would absolutely urge cases like those to complain so I'm going to take your advice and do the same.

I'm really sorry to see a handful of TMD sufferers here, it's the worst isn't it. I've had this for almost 2 years now, it appeared out of the blue a couple of months after I had my DD. At the risk of sounding dramatic but not wanting to, I was worried I had a life limiting illness for a time.. such was the degree of unrelenting pain.

One sticking point I have with regards to my complaint is that I don't know the dentists name, she didn't introduce herself properly. I only know the name of my usual dentist there, the one who took over.