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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Boys playground games banned by school....

132 replies

Lollipop888 · 15/03/2021 17:22

Not strictly an aibu as I don’t have strong feelings either way, but ds (8) has been playing armies/war/ww2 in the playground with a group of friends, but came home upset because school have banned them from playing it.

He thinks it’s not fair. I can see school’s Point of view, that pretend shooting etc is not in good taste, but on the other hand, it is just role play, unless it becomes violent, Which obviously is not on. (Ds is very interested in ww2 and is quite knowledgeable about it for his age). I was wondering how other schools viewed this/handled this?

I am not used to boys and the way they play as he has older sisters!

OP posts:
scentedgeranium · 16/03/2021 17:58

@MrsTulipTattsyrup I never observed that sort of WW2 play. It was much more generic. And often weird stuff would happen - dinosaurs would appear! Proper imaginative play. But with pretend guns.

cyclingtowardsbethlehem · 16/03/2021 18:03

YABU to normalise violence in boys, yes. Boys will be...all sorts of things. As will girls.
It may also be that they are dominating what is currently a limited play space (covid bubbles) with violent play and this is preventing other children from using the space.
PP are absolutely right that other children in the school may have experienced that violence first hand.

RavingAnnie · 16/03/2021 18:06

Children should be left to play without constant adult interference. It's detrimental to children's development for them to be constantly micromanaged. It just seems this is getting worse and worse despite already seeing the outcome of the helicopter parenting to date that we are seeing in our teens and young adults.

twelly · 16/03/2021 18:07

It really depends on the type of game, banning something often makes it worse as policing it become hard and there will be some grey areas about what can be played. I wouldn't be encouraging this type of games but at the same time I think banning it makes it seem more attractive. I am not a fan of guns as a toy but nerf guns seems to me to be different just as laser guns - and there are many centres that run these for children

MrsTulipTattsyrup · 16/03/2021 18:23

[quote scentedgeranium]@MrsTulipTattsyrup I never observed that sort of WW2 play. It was much more generic. And often weird stuff would happen - dinosaurs would appear! Proper imaginative play. But with pretend guns.
[/quote]
As I say, I think that sort of goodies and baddies is fine. It’s the specific WW2 play mentioned by the OP, not you, to which I was reacting.

nanbread · 16/03/2021 19:45

@RavingAnnie

Children should be left to play without constant adult interference. It's detrimental to children's development for them to be constantly micromanaged. It just seems this is getting worse and worse despite already seeing the outcome of the helicopter parenting to date that we are seeing in our teens and young adults.
Agree
Confrontayshunme · 16/03/2021 19:49

As an American who was hugely affected by the Newtown school shooting, I immediately stop any gun play games when watching play times in my EYFS classes. They just don't understand, but when you are from a country where dozens of six and seven year olds were butchered at school, even pretend guns in a school setting are unfathomable.

Donelurking · 16/03/2021 19:51

@Beseigedbykillersquirrels

I don't allow pretend killing games or games with guns in my class I'm afraid. I just don't think it's necessary or pleasant. I don't believe it's necessarily innocent fun (as cops and robbers and such like used to be seen) as there's a strong chance some of these children are playing realistic violent video games, or at least have had exposure to them, and I think they shift the perception of 'pretend violence'. I think it's quite a common school rule to be honest, at least in the schools I'm familiar with.
Evidence?
Downton57 · 16/03/2021 19:55

@Confrontayshunme In Scotland, what happened in Dunblane is etched in all our memories. Can't imagine being fine with kids pretending to shoot each other in school.

Downton57 · 16/03/2021 20:00

@Donelurking how on earth is @Beseigedbykillersquirrels meant to produce evidence for you? In my long experience, in all the schools I've worked, gun play is discouraged. Times have changed. Children aren't playing cowboys and Indians games they've seen in kid's westerns. Many, many children nowadays are exposed to really violent video games meant for adults and they bring those 'games' to their playground play.

Stompythedinosaur · 16/03/2021 20:04

They haven't banned "games for boys". Boys don't have to play games that mimic violent acts. I'm glad that the school are doing their bit to reduce social pressure on boys to become interested in violence.

Suggest your ds plays something more appropriate, and stop defining games as "for boys" or "for girls".

smalalalalalala · 16/03/2021 20:05

Reading that thread and mentally linking to the post asking why women are being victim of male violence...

'stopping boys being boisterous', just raising boys like girls, not as dominating males

smalalalalalala · 16/03/2021 20:10

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I think it’s a mistake to think boys can’t play nicely. Energetic and boisterous are used to say violent in my experience.

This. Little girls are just as energetic as little boys but we don't tolerate the same levels of aggression from them.

Halleluia !
Donelurking · 16/03/2021 20:48

Anecdote is not evidence. I was interested to know whether there was any research evidence to support the opinions expressed. I suspect there is probably some research paper out there. Wondered if the poster could point me to it.

Lollipop888 · 16/03/2021 20:50

@MrsTulipTattsyrup

If they’re re-enacting scenes from WW2 then I’m appalled and absolutely not surprised it’s been banned. Who decides who plays the nazis? Are there any Jewish children in the school? Mind boggled.

A generic goodies v baddies game is a very different kettle of fish in my mind.

Wow you’re reading way too much into an innocent kids game! No need to be appalled on my behalf. It’s more trenches, tanks and planes. But kids are interested in things that we find uncomfortable, and they learn and express themselves through playing. Just blanket banning things without discussion seems a bit backward to me
OP posts:
Lollipop888 · 16/03/2021 21:06

@Stompythedinosaur

They haven't banned "games for boys". Boys don't have to play games that mimic violent acts. I'm glad that the school are doing their bit to reduce social pressure on boys to become interested in violence.

Suggest your ds plays something more appropriate, and stop defining games as "for boys" or "for girls".

The thread title was my mistake, which I’ve addressed earlier in the messages. Bad choice of wording.

It wasn’t a “boys game” but included boys and girls.

Completely agree that games should not be defined as for boys or for girls. (Again my badly written explanation).

I’m still torn as to whether to encourage or discourage games which mimic violent acts. I’ve yet to see any definitive evidence that playing wars, pretend guns, armies, Star Wars etc leads to violence in later life. Reading posts on here it seems they are a normal healthy part of development and just a phase. (Albeit annoying).

OP posts:
twelly · 16/03/2021 21:10

Children devise quite imaginative games which I think is good for them. I don't agree with the school banning the games you have just described

Pumperthepumper · 16/03/2021 21:21

I’m still torn as to whether to encourage or discourage games which mimic violent acts. I’ve yet to see any definitive evidence that playing wars, pretend guns, armies, Star Wars etc leads to violence in later life. Reading posts on here it seems they are a normal healthy part of development and just a phase. (Albeit annoying).

I think it’s a bit disingenuous to think guns are banned to stop future violence, although I don’t doubt some people do. I just think there are certain things you as a parent have to decide are appropriate for young children. So you presumably already have drawn a line between play wrestling and pretend stabbing to death. I didn’t want any of my kids to normalise guns. So we didn’t.

Language exploration is important for development too but we don’t allow our eight year olds to call people cunts. Same kind of idea, for me.

ThePlantsitter · 16/03/2021 21:28

It's a shame they couldn't use it as am opportunity to talk about why people don't like kids playing games like that instead of just banning it. Too busy having to teach made up grammar and writing techniques they'll have to unlearn as adults I suppose.

Lollipop888 · 16/03/2021 21:47

“I think it’s a bit disingenuous to think guns are banned to stop future violence, although I don’t doubt some people do. I just think there are certain things you as a parent have to decide are appropriate for young children. So you presumably already have drawn a line between play wrestling and pretend stabbing to death. I didn’t want any of my kids to normalise guns. So we didn’t. “

“Language exploration is important for development too but we don’t allow our eight year olds to call people cunts. Same kind of idea, for me.”

I had the same thoughts, so didn’t buy guns either, but can’t really stop ds using other things like sticks or his fingers instead! And obviously there is a big difference between imaginary play and actually hurting people.

But then, yes I agree I wouldn’t want ds pretending to stab someone, even in play, or using bad language....does that make me a hypocrite? But then it feels different somehow.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 16/03/2021 21:53

@Lollipop888

“I think it’s a bit disingenuous to think guns are banned to stop future violence, although I don’t doubt some people do. I just think there are certain things you as a parent have to decide are appropriate for young children. So you presumably already have drawn a line between play wrestling and pretend stabbing to death. I didn’t want any of my kids to normalise guns. So we didn’t. “

“Language exploration is important for development too but we don’t allow our eight year olds to call people cunts. Same kind of idea, for me.”

I had the same thoughts, so didn’t buy guns either, but can’t really stop ds using other things like sticks or his fingers instead! And obviously there is a big difference between imaginary play and actually hurting people.

But then, yes I agree I wouldn’t want ds pretending to stab someone, even in play, or using bad language....does that make me a hypocrite? But then it feels different somehow.

No, I don’t think it makes you a hypocrite. We all draw our line in the sand. Same with guns vs wands, is a weapon a weapon even if it doesn’t exist in real life? So my kids are allowed to play with wands and pretend to turn each other into frogs, but they’re not allowed to pretend to shoot each other because guns have real-life connotations and I didn’t think that was appropriate. And I said, we’re in Scotland and I think there is (as a pp said) a different attitude here to guns.
MsAwesomeDragon · 16/03/2021 22:04

It's entirely possible that there's a child in the school who has witnessed gun violence for real, and this sort of play would be understandably traumatic for that child. When dd1 was in infant school she was friends with a girl who lived with grandparents. All the other class parents knew her parents were dead so that's why she lived with Grandma and grandad. Very few of us knew the full story, that she'd watched her dad shoot her mum, her sister and then himself. That school was incredibly strict on enforcing no gun play, understandably. But very few parents knew the full story so may have thought they were being overly previous, rather than protecting a little girl who'd already experienced the most horrific trauma.

IHateCoronavirus · 17/03/2021 02:31

Controversially, IMO banning types of play is often done with the adults in mind.
Play which makes our lives difficult or uncomfortable, such as battle play or schematic play such as transporting (often banned in EYFS settings as it makes the setting difficult to keep tidy). “My goodness me, Mrs Smith, somebody keeps emptying out the shells and filling the basket with other random things from the room! Who is moving things around? We don’t do THAT in nursery!” or “Charlie! What is that you have made from stickle bricks again? You know we don’t play with guns!”

Children are learning, all of the time, about the world in which we live through play. They explore ideas and skills over and over again until they can make sense of them. It is why as adults repetitive play/reading the same story over and over again is mind numbing, but perfectly enjoyable to them. It is also why, despite saying “we don’t play with guns!” little Charlie always finds a way to make one out of a stick or some bits of Lego.

Sadly, the world in which we live includes battles/wars etc. To make sense of it children will explore those themes through play, just as they do making cups of tea, or pouring jugs of water. As adults, who have already learned about the horrors of war, the permanence of death, the destruction to people’s lives, we find this kind of play abhorrent, but these children do not have our knowledge and their understanding yet.

Instead of blanket banning types of play, it is far better to observe play closely and interact with children to support/scaffold their learning and understanding in an age appropriate way. “What would happen if?” “How would they feel?” “What do you think it would be like?” Etc. Supported properly, a child will also learn our values, as well as benefitting from the choreography of social play.

We don’t allow our children to use fowl language etc, but how do they learn that certain words are unacceptable? Through support and picking up on social clues. We aren’t born with that knowledge, it has to be learned and how it gets taught will be different depending on the needs and experiences of the individual child.

By observing closely we can step in when play becomes too rough or when we think reenactment will be triggering for another child in our care. But all of that takes commitment, time and understanding from the professionals that work with our children and often one or more of those elements are are missing or stretched.

Sadly it is easier to look at the world, with the judgement of what we already know and just say “No!” rather than taking a step back and asking ourselves “what are the children trying learn/understand through this type of play? How can I help them achieve that in a more appropriate way?”

sashh · 17/03/2021 03:15

Not strictly an aibu as I don’t have strong feelings either way, but ds (8) has been playing armies/war/ww2 in the playground with a group of friends, but came home upset because school have banned them from playing it.

I've taught children from Kosovo, Serbia and a few others who have seen war first hand, they don't need it making into a game.

Marty13 · 17/03/2021 04:19

Some people compared playing ww2 to pretending stabbing someone in the street. That comparison is not relevant at all.

The point of being a soldier is protecting your country. The point of stabbing someone is to hurt them. That's not at all similar. IRL soldiers are normal people and stabbers are put behind bars. There is a huge difference that we have already acknowledged, be it in pretend play or IRL, and it's doing children a disservice to pretend they can't separate the two.

I'm frankly baffled by the need so many people have expressed to police play. I've never ever heard of a school banning certain games before (am not from the UK). I think it's a waste of time, unhelpful to the children and a hassle to adults who must enforce it.

OP, you asked "should I encourage, discourage or ban it" - why would you want to do any of that ? Let him get on with it. By all means watch if you feel it necessary, but don't interfere unless the game becomes actually violent or hurtful. You're way overthinking this.

Boy vs girl play - and instead of raising boys like girls, why not raise girls like boys ? Plenty of girls enjoy their fake guns and violent video games.

Also I wonder how all these anti gunplay people manage TV, as guns and violence are a predominant theme there. Should we ban SW and HP then ? If violence is okay in fiction, it follows that it is okay in pretend play - which is a form of fiction too.

The fact is that we live in a world where guns exist. Pretending otherwise helps no one. I'd rather my kids understand guns and violence and their consequences, than be clueless about it all.

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