Boys playground games banned by school....

[Lollipop888]

Not strictly an aibu as I don’t have strong feelings either way, but ds (8) has been playing armies/war/ww2 in the playground with a group of friends, but came home upset because school have banned them from playing it.

He thinks it’s not fair. I can see school’s Point of view, that pretend shooting etc is not in good taste, but on the other hand, it is just role play, unless it becomes violent, Which obviously is not on. (Ds is very interested in ww2 and is quite knowledgeable about it for his age). I was wondering how other schools viewed this/handled this?

I am not used to boys and the way they play as he has older sisters!

@NiceGerbil oh dear you implied girls don’t like football. Prepare for the wrath of MN

Lol I was thinking that when I was posting!

Yes of course some do but primary school age the boys don't tend to 'let' themn play.

Which is another issue isn't it.

How are they going to police it?
And what army games? Are they allowed pretend reconnaissance missions? What about a pretend humanitarian relief mission?
My little boy pretended to save some Jews yesterday as he has been learning about the Holocaust, I let that continue.
I just think there’s a fine line between policing children’s play and it’s very nanny state and worrying.

Well presumably if they're going around doing bang bang you're dead then it's fairly obvious to the playground supervisor!

Interesting to read these responses. I am a 1950's child. All adults had been through one or both wars when I was growing up. Our children's comics were full of war stories (fictional) and resistance heroes and many of our playground and street games were war games. I was quite little and was under the impression that a Nazi was some sort of tomato. My contemporaries and siblings (a few years older) all turned into pleasant, non-violent adults. The adults around us were totally unmoved by the games we played. No-one ever stopped us

True - and seeing children playing 'cowboys and indians* was commonplace too. But in the 1950's despite the aftermath of war, there was a real innocence about - TV and films were less graphic and there were no video games to 'normalise violence', and even the TV news wasn't showing graphic footage from war correspondent live at the war zone.

@NiceGerbil

Having a tiny playground with the boys taking all the space playing football while the girls are all around the edges isn't great though is it?

I definately think there is another whole issue about the amount of spae available to children to play in (and out) of school. Of course if space is limited then the school ends up having to control the games children play a lot more (and possibly some childrens play becomes more agressive because they cant easily burn energy of any other way, other childrens games get disrupted by the children running around etc) Thats a real shame, but you cant blame the teachers/lunchtime supervisors for trying to minimise the impact.

DC have been playing cowboys, soldiers, cops forever.
They are probably getting rough pushing or a parent made a complaint.

When I was a young boy all my adult relatives had served in the services during the war, survived bombings , fought across the world , nursed and saw terrible things .Almost all the boy children played war , were steeped in war comics , fought and wrestled each other ..I was a sickly asthmatic bookish child but Loved playing war and wrestling with my mates . And , like almost every lad did , grew out of it . Teenage years had aggressive sports for some but others went off in different directions, I joined CND and left wing politicsand eventually became a nurse and counsellor . But I bloody loved being a rough and tumble boy , and those of you who want to wish it away from your sons are doing them a dis service ...it's a phase but an important one, and it won't disappear just because you dont understand or approve .

@NiceGerbil

Well presumably if they're going around doing bang bang you're dead then it's fairly obvious to the playground supervisor!

Dont be ridiculous. Guns dont go "bang, bang". Everyone knows they go "Pew, pew, pew pew" and occassionally "kaboom"

Guns dont go "bang, bang". Everyone knows they go "Pew, pew, pew pew" and occassionally "kaboom" 🤣
I don't think you have to worry about banning games at home with a finger gun pew pew. The DC you do grow up violent and interested in real guns don't do it because they played a game, the environment, education, parents, poverty influence their lifestyle. We played soldiers all summer as DC.

No pretend games of children killing others with guns/knives in our school. Boys or girls.
There are much more constructive games they can play.

Appalled :D

It was light sabres when I was a girl.

The last post is interesting 'No pretend games of children killing others with guns/knives in our school'.

I suspect (but may be wrong) that some of the posters who think don't restrict their play would blanche at them pretending to stab each other? Not with fancy swords from a film, waving them around etc, but play acting street stabbing.

Dunno it's just a guess.

I pretended anything I held was a gun as a young child, watched The A Team with loads of guns and explosives, loved a bit of Laser Quest when I was older, did a lot of target shooting... I'm not concerned if my children do the same tbh given how I've turned out.

Even as a child of the 50’s I never saw war games played at school. All play was organised - jacks, skipping rope, ball games, no war games at all.
However, at home & in the neighbourhood was something else. I had two older brothers, & they invariably made me the Japanese soldier, who they would promptly shoot.
I am with the school on this one.

So should Cadets be prohibited in secondary school?

What's cadets?

I don't personally agree with cadets being an in-school thing, but cadets is not a game so doesn't compare really.

Cadets is not running around playing “guns and shooting” !!! In my ds senior school you have to be year 9 to join the combined cadet force, it’s mostly about discipline and independence, and survival skills.

I went to cadets for many years, out of maybe 300 sessions I shot a rifle once.
I did learn leadership, discipline, camping/survival skills, how to present, how to look after myself (cleaning, uniform), time keeping, how to keep physically fit... cadets is really not a violent thing.

Even from toddlers boys have a tendency to enjoy rough and tumble play more often than girls. We have an area where toddlers can do this play, supervised and helping them understand boundaries. For example, helping them see when a friend is no longer enjoying it or pointing out when someone has got hurt. This helps them learn to ‘pull their punches’ if you like, for when they engage in this play when they are older and less supervised. Unless children get a chance to try out this play they can’t learn where the boundaries between play and real fighting start and finish. You also get to see the ones that dislike the violent play but are good at negotiating verbally to keep themselves involved but not hurt lol.

I’m not against such play. It develops imagination, teaches empathy and team work and is very natural to humans. In a younger setting we will try to channel it into superhero play and non realistic weapons such as webs, lasers etc.

I don't know the theories but anecdotally I had an army mad boy. He recruited his little sister and she was equally happy running around with pretend guns. Hours of imaginative play.
Boy ended up studying literature at Cambridge and actually writes (rather good) poetry now. He is the most metrosexual (is that still a thing now?) young man you could wish to meet with a lovely wife so I don't think it harmed him or his sister.
He also played lots of video games.
I think largely it depends how the war games are being played. My DC's games had huge over arching stories. It was exhausting keeping up!

I'd imagine the school has had issues and complaints & this is seen as the best option. I wouldn't push the school on it - there are plenty of other things to play though maybe encourage and try to facilitate it elsewhere at a later date with the others he was playing with.

As a child, we had a tackle game banned at my elementary school after a boy got very upset to have been tackled by girl-me. I remember on the day he got so angry with me as did another boy, and the day after he came up all gloating that his mother was such-and-such and she was going to make sure I got in trouble - but I didn't, the game just got banned, it wasn't discussed again, and we all moved on to other things.

I have 2 children of each sex. I have 2 children who love rough-housing and 2 who hate it. Those categories don't match up. People definitely disapprove of my DD doing it more & encouraged her into different pursuits (somehow it's okay when related to animals and she latched onto that quite young) and people made far more excuses for my DS when he was younger (that stopped once he was taller than some adults when he started to be treated very differently, even as a SJA cadet).

It reminded me of how as I child I was put into dance, gymnastics and cheerleading as a way to sort me out, but my brother got boxing gloves (which resulted in us each boxing each other with one glove) and similar. As a teenager, I got into strength training and wrestling. No one there would have thought to be boisterous little-me into wrestling even though I was clearly into it, my behaviour was viewed as something to be corrected and feminised at a very early age (I was put into dance at 3, I don't recall ever really liking it though I liked making something with others & having that acknowledged).

There is a genetic component that sex likely plays a role in with play and other behaviours, but socialization starts in infancy and culture & environment have a large effect on how different traits are treated, channeled, and become viewed as good ways to use them which affects interests. Now there is in some spaces boys who are being treated similarly to girls such as I was. I'm not sure that's what is happening in this specific situation (there are many reasons why a war game style play might have caused issues that others mentioned), but I think there is room for discussing how socially we want to help channel playful aggression, physical play, and this type of creativity as society changes (and acknowledges beyond the very narrow scope of that link - some good ideas, but I find their discussion oversimplified, especially on role models for something that was well known at the time and place of writing).

Sometimes when people play fight others get hurt. If you have repeated accidents in any game, or it escalates to poor behaviour you review the game.
It also depends on the impact it has on class, if children come back in with continued niggles, feelings that some accidents were deliberate, feeling their input into the game is ignored or someone is taking the lead each session.
If they are ignoring staff instructions and staff are repeatedly intervening in their play to sort problems or to keep others safe it can become a larger issue. How much does it affect behaviour outside and inside the class?

@Tumbleweed101

Even from toddlers boys have a tendency to enjoy rough and tumble play more often than girls. We have an area where toddlers can do this play, supervised and helping them understand boundaries. For example, helping them see when a friend is no longer enjoying it or pointing out when someone has got hurt. This helps them learn to ‘pull their punches’ if you like, for when they engage in this play when they are older and less supervised. Unless children get a chance to try out this play they can’t learn where the boundaries between play and real fighting start and finish. You also get to see the ones that dislike the violent play but are good at negotiating verbally to keep themselves involved but not hurt lol.

I’m not against such play. It develops imagination, teaches empathy and team work and is very natural to humans. In a younger setting we will try to channel it into superhero play and non realistic weapons such as webs, lasers etc.

I agree with this. I think general fighting/army games are natural imaginative playground play.

Unless a game causes harm or is nasty in nature (I.e the anecdote earlier, involving Jews and ovens), then I don't think it's the school's place to intervene by banning a game the kids have chosen.

If they’re re-enacting scenes from WW2 then I’m appalled and absolutely not surprised it’s been banned. Who decides who plays the nazis? Are there any Jewish children in the school? Mind boggled.

A generic goodies v baddies game is a very different kettle of fish in my mind.