Boys playground games banned by school....

[Lollipop888]

Not strictly an aibu as I don’t have strong feelings either way, but ds (8) has been playing armies/war/ww2 in the playground with a group of friends, but came home upset because school have banned them from playing it.

He thinks it’s not fair. I can see school’s Point of view, that pretend shooting etc is not in good taste, but on the other hand, it is just role play, unless it becomes violent, Which obviously is not on. (Ds is very interested in ww2 and is quite knowledgeable about it for his age). I was wondering how other schools viewed this/handled this?

I am not used to boys and the way they play as he has older sisters!

I think it’s a mistake to think boys can’t play nicely. Energetic and boisterous are used to say violent in my experience.

This. Little girls are just as energetic as little boys but we don't tolerate the same levels of aggression from them.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I think it’s a mistake to think boys can’t play nicely. Energetic and boisterous are used to say violent in my experience.

This. Little girls are just as energetic as little boys but we don't tolerate the same levels of aggression from them.

Speaking purely from my own experience with my kids, my girls were noisy, lively and exuberant but never showed interest in or participated in fighting games or aggressive play. We never had to stop them because they never did it. We didn’t micro manage their play, they were left to it.

My ds is more interested in rough play generally, as are some of his friends too. They are not violent to the point of deliberately hurting each other, or vindictive, but obviously some will occasionally get hurt in the rough play. He will generally always play nicely, and treats his friends with respect, but doesn’t always play nice quiet games! Because of this, I feel like I micro manage him more, saying don’t play that, it’s not nice etc and didn’t know if I was being too harsh or not!

Pfft, such sexist nonsense. You didn't raise your children in a gender vacuum.

And yet, there are loads of violent things we don't allow them to do - stabbing something to death or kicking something in the head until it’s eyes pop out.

I don't think you can compare playing a game where you pretend to be a solider in WWII with actually stabbing someone or popping their eyes out.

There’s been absolutely loads of studies on this and the exploration of the understanding of death in play does not have to come from pretend violence.

There is also not evidence that kids playing games like this is either abnormal or leads to poor behaviour, quite the opposite.

I find it pretty ironic actually that schools and parents ban games like this, outside with other children, but allow their kids to spend all hours on video games, which have known bad outcomes even when they are non-violent, which many aren't.

Football, tag etc banned at ours

[quote NoIDontWatchLoveIsland]**@smokedduck* that article is quite vague..its clear that socio-dramatic play has value, it's not* clear at all in evidencing that pretend play involving guns or war specifically have value.

There are other ways to get the same developmental benefits, lots of children will channel similar behaviours but with much more positive & valuable themes: police, superheroes, space travel etc.[/quote]
Do you really think that police and superhero games, (or Star Wars...) are vastly different content wise the way kids play them?

They really really aren't.

@SmokedDuck

And yet, there are loads of violent things we don't allow them to do - stabbing something to death or kicking something in the head until it’s eyes pop out.

I don't think you can compare playing a game where you pretend to be a solider in WWII with actually stabbing someone or popping their eyes out.

There’s been absolutely loads of studies on this and the exploration of the understanding of death in play does not have to come from pretend violence.

There is also not evidence that kids playing games like this is either abnormal or leads to poor behaviour, quite the opposite.

I find it pretty ironic actually that schools and parents ban games like this, outside with other children, but allow their kids to spend all hours on video games, which have known bad outcomes even when they are non-violent, which many aren't.

It’s not one or the other, there are loads and loads of active non-violent games that don’t involve screens.

There was a typo in my post - we don’t allow children to pretend to stab someone to death. So we draw a line anyway in what pretend violence is acceptable, even if you’re someone who thinks guns are an appropriate toy for a child.

I’m not sure what evidence that playing with guns leads to poor behaviour means, I’m not sure what that evidence would look like. We do have evidence that being around violence in early years leads to a more violent adulthood. So pretend violence, to me, seems an unnatural thing to promote to a child. Especially when we have so many alternatives.

@Snugglepumpkin

It really depends what sort of WW games they are playing.

When my oldest son was that age I went to his school & made them stop the kids playing World Wars because the game they were playing was to be Nazis killing Jews by pushing the designated Jews into the goalposts (which were apparently ovens.)

Nobody needs to be playing that sort of game.

Thats horrific.

I'm still trying to live down the mortification of my 5yos zoom class a few weeks ago. He was asked to show the class his favourite toy. He retrieved a toy tank which has a mounted machine gun thingie. He carefully swiveled it so that the barrel was pointing straight at the camera and made loud pow-pow noises.

You say that you don't have guns in the house or allow fortnite so why would you expect a school to allow it?
Schools ban conflict games for a very good reason.

@1Morewineplease

You say that you don't have guns in the house or allow fortnite so why would you expect a school to allow it? Schools ban conflict games for a very good reason.

I don’t expect school to allow it, I just wondered if that policy was commonplace and where they draw the line with role play. For example is Star Wars ok, or cops and robbers or wrestling as someone else mentioned.

Not having guns at home does not stop ds role playing with guns- he uses other things and pretends they are guns.

In my experience, schools tend to ban playground games when they are causing a massive headache for the teachers/a lot of general upset. So if a colouring in club is causing a lot of heartache because the ring leader is being highly selective in who is allowed to do the colouring in each day and teachers are having to deak with multiple fallings out and crying they will ban it (based on a true story). If a pretend game of war is causing an unnusually high number of children to present with bleeding knees etc from being barged in to, or is resulting in a high number of civilian casualties when children that arent playing are crashed into by those that are then school will shut it down.
I dont think thats anything new, or necessarily detrimental to childrens development. And I say that as a child who used to spend a long time with friends sharpening sticks into pointy ends as (very inneffective and not painful) "weapons". The trick was not to let the dinner ladies see you doing it or cause issues that would mean they had to intervene.

I suppose my question really is not so much to do with the school stopping them playing it ((although school banning the game has made it seem more appealing), but should I as a parent be encouraging or discouraging or banning this type of play.

I don’t allow my boys to pretend to shoot other than water pistols in summer (thinking about it, I’ve no idea why this is more acceptable) However, I did go into school to complain when the boys were told they couldn’t wrestle at lunch. Apparently no rough housing allowed at all. I disagree with this quite strongly. I think many children, many boys especially, need this sort of play and do better in lessons if they’ve had this sort of energy bursting antics at break time. I didn’t win the argument. School would rather they say on the floor and drew with chalk. Or played clapping games. They hate them getting disheveled or muddy. Drives me bonkers.

we have never talked about guns but my 5 year old son has started playing with pretend/imaginary guns. Following reading the book 'playful parenting' I asked him what his gun was shooting, and suggested some other things. We have had a gun shooting nets, or slugs or poo (I'll be honest, it's mainly poo). Not once has he ever said bullets (because imo a five year old should not know about that) if he was playing war I'd try to introduce some other characters. Most of the world were not soldiers during wars.
I know that is younger than your child's age though

@Lollipop888

I suppose my question really is not so much to do with the school stopping them playing it ((although school banning the game has made it seem more appealing), but should I as a parent be encouraging or discouraging or banning this type of play.

I think this is probably something you need to decide yourself as a parent. He’s old enough at 8 to understand the difference between rules at school and rules at home.

Having said that, I’m not sure how often they play cops and robbers and so on these days. It’s mainly stuff like Harry Potter (I guess you have to decide where you draw the line on pretend weapons like wands or lightsabers) or Pokémon.

@Lollipop888

I suppose my question really is not so much to do with the school stopping them playing it ((although school banning the game has made it seem more appealing), but should I as a parent be encouraging or discouraging or banning this type of play.

Yes, its difficult isnt it and I havent completely found the answer. I think you have to play it by ear. I will do "fighting" games with my son myself (which he is always begging to play) but it is mostly wrestling/pretend kung fu and their are strict rules to ensure no-one gets hurt. He is also allowed to play similar pretend kung fu games with some friends,* but there are a couple of his friends who he is outright banned from playing those sort of games because every time they "play fight" it leads to drama. I wonder if the long time out of school has led to more problems with these types of games. I know at my sons school it took a few weeks for everyone to remember how to play nicely after so long at home.

*Actually it is better to disapprove of such games because then the children self regulate better. Because they know that if they damage themselves or the house or it leads to an argument play fighting will stop instantly.

And I’ll add, I don’t believe violence is innate in little boys. I don’t believe there’s a gun-fetish section of that Y chromosome that means they’re more likely to say, gnaw their toast into a gun shape.

It comes from their surroundings, from their society. And I think that’s really shit.

@Pumperthepumper

And I’ll add, I don’t believe violence is innate in little boys. I don’t believe there’s a gun-fetish section of that Y chromosome that means they’re more likely to say, gnaw their toast into a gun shape.

It comes from their surroundings, from their society. And I think that’s really shit.

Violence isnt innate no. But physical play is innate in both boys and girls (I was a very rough and tumble child). I think done right, it actually helps children learn how to control themselves around other children, how to understand and respect other childrens boundaries, how to stop doing something BEFORE someone is hurt, how to respect if someone is smaller or weaker than you and moderate accordingly. E.g. the 3 year old sister of my sons friend always wants to "wrestle" with my son. He is very very gentle with her and lets her "win". He knows full well that he ant hit her even if she hits him because she is so much smaller and younger and that he should just remove himself. He is completely different if he is wrestling his friend who is a year older than him but crucially, both know not to hurt each other and to stop as soon as one has had enough. Of course children dont always get it right, they are still learning. But that sort of physical play is a world away from some parents going "go on son, hit him back, be a man" which is hugely damaging

I don't know any primary school in Scotland where shooting games are permitted in the playground. I would have thought the reason for that would be clear as day.

@apalledandshocked yes, absolutely.

And yes to @Downton57 - I’m in Scotland too and I think we have strong views for that very reason.

Jesus, most my childhood was running around fields and woods with my friends building dens and playing war/army, never did me any harm, in 29 years I've never had a fight or been violent to anyone, but I also grew up around the army because my dad was a serving soldier for 21 years of my life!
Such a snowflake generation

So the schools ban pretend play, football and tag and then wonder why children lack imagination and are obese and miserable?

Having a tiny playground with the boys taking all the space playing football while the girls are all around the edges isn't great though is it?

All those who are totally again gun play or war games, if this 8yr old wants to go paintballing when he's older, is that a no as well? I really can't see the harm in either. The kids at my primary school played games like this and I don't think it had any negative impact at all.