Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

[FirstAvenue]

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

Op also in future I agree the tenancy agreement needs to be much more clear and use "must" or "must not" rather than vague easily misinterpreted "should" or "should not"

Having boyfriends/girlfriends OCCASIONALLY stay over is NOT the same as them moving in by stealth and taking the piss, why do I get the feeling you're an Ann?

Also, sharing a place with a couple is a very different dynamic to sharing with separate housemates.

Absolutely

"If I had a landlord who told me I couldnt have guests in my own home (because if I pay the rent that makes it my home) I think I'd just humour them and wonder if they thought they were my mum or something!"

Except it's not really your home is it? I am a tenant and have been in house shares etc perfectly normal for there to be rules like this

Plus it doesn't sound like this guy is a "visitor" frankly he sounds like a squatter! He's living there without the owners permission and isn't paying anything!

Make them clean their house if it smells

And what's the bets the man causing all this trouble won't lift a finger to do this? "I'm not a tenant here it's not my place"

Re update "last half hour" have you anyone who lives nearby who can pop round to check on whether the boyfriend is there for you? Arrange for Betsy to answer door to them and admit them?

That's what I'd be doing

Assuming you can't go yourself.

Or even FaceTime with Betsy and she can position device so that boyfriend is visible?

You need to get more assertive. This isn’t on.

I agree - op is being far too passive even to the point of potentially landing herself in big shit legally re hmo regs, health and safety, fire regs etc, unless...op hasn't acted completely legally themselves and so is reluctant to take legal measures against Ann for fear of attracting attention?

This is happened in part because you are trying to manage this from a distance. A regular LL presence would have helped prevent this or nip it in the bud.

Agreed

Also are the utilities bills split equally?

Op needs to confirm but I think it's a "bills included" setup as in the rent is enough to cover mortgage, admin and utilities also

Whether it's "bills included" or split among the tenants SOMEONE is subsidising the cheeky fucker (boyfriend but arguably also the girlfriend in her being able to have boyfriend there)

But even in "bills included" scenarios he's still using appliances (tv at least), loo roll, household items (dishes etc), toiletries (hand wash at the very least), cleaning products (laundry detergent at the very least) etc which he hasn't contributed towards!

Damn straight I'd be pissed off in betsys - and the other housemates - position

Tenants need more rights in this country, not less.

This IS about the tenants rights - the 3 tenants who without their agreement are dealing with a non paying, intrusive, male living in their home!

@Grinch48 sorry you're dealing with something similar

Current Covid rules say you are not to stay over at another house and only one person to meet in your household if they live alone to form a bubble?

If your in Britain seems to me he is breaking both these rules (unless he lives alone but even then not sure if he could form a bubble in a house share) My son lives near a block of multi shared flats and the police attended one week-end put out the people who shouldn’t have been there, fined them for breaking Covid rules. The following day the landlord evicted the tenants not sure if this was because of Covid rules but it’s worth checking where you stand. If you own the house and people are even visiting against the rules you could be fined too.

@Finfintytint

Start billing Ann for rent for the extra “ tenant”. My friend’s landlord charged for any nights a friend overstayed. This was early nineties though.

Would this not effectively give him the "right" to be there?

I have no idea about landlord/tenant law - I'm. just speculating.

Ann needs to be reminded that the contract is for 2 days a fortnight, not "not weekdays".

Would this not effectively give him the "right" to be there?

I have no idea about landlord/tenant law - I'm. just speculating.

It would. It's a terrible idea.

Could breaking Covid laws be classed as antisocial behaviour? He is coming into close contact with people outside his bubble by spending time in common areas.

@bigdecisionstomake

Hi OP, I'm an HMO Property Manager for a living and *@Lockheart* *@JustLyra and @Boomboomboomboom* have given you really good advice. Tenancy law can be unforgiving so you need to tread carefully.

You need to service notice, both S21 & S8 on Ann. Don't under any circumstances accept any rent or form of payment from the boyfriend as you may accidentally create a tenancy that pushes you into mandatory HMO licencing territory. By issuing notice you are correctly and legally dealing with the situation.

The police will not want to be involved with a tenant having a guest in the house. It is a civil matter unless there is an issue under Covid law but even then I suspect it's really unlikely they will want to be involved.

If Ann is saying she is looking to leave shortly and you really want to keep Betsy as a tenant then it may be best to try to mediate the situation between Ann and Betsy temporarily until such time as Ann can find somewhere else but serving notice on Ann in the meantime at least starts the process.

This ^

You can’t just “send someone round” particularly either. Tenants don’t have to allow anyone to access their home if they don’t want to.

I think if he's not leaving despite clear requests he doesn't actually have his own place to go to. Perhaps he gave up his property to save money and they thought they could get away with him staying for a bit?

Living with a couple over living with other girls completely changes the dynamic.

It’s awkward and who wants to feel like they have to get dressed every time they want to get something to eat or use the bathroom?

You going around there OP to get him out and to support Betsy?

I think Betsy is completely reasonable and Anne is the CF. She's outright lying to you. Plenty of expert advice on this thread. i'd tread carefully.

I am a LL. I would:

(a) immediately serve Ann notice. Every day you delay is a day longer she's there.

(b) appoint a local agent who can call on the property and deal with the issue professionally. I know you pay them commission but I've found a good agent is worth it.

(c) remind Ann that that she may need a LL reference from you and you will not be minded to give her one if she breaks the terms of her lease.

(d) if it continues, take a day to travel there and sort it out F2F.

Totally team Betsy here.

I flat shared for a few years and absolutely no way would Ann's bullshit have been tolerated.

A man staying over constantly, having set up his laptop in the living room is beyond selfish.

He would totally change the dynamic and the feeling the living room was a communal area.

Not to mention ablutions.

@Justgorgeous

Go round and stand up for Betsy by asking him to leave and make sure he understands he’s allowed to stay 2 nts every 14 and give Anne her official notice. Assert your authority and stand up for the girls that are sticking to your rules.

Point out he's already 3 years in credit with his sleepovers, and you don't expect to see him back for the duration of the notice period.

(Not really)

@HollowTalk

Ann needs to be reminded that the contract is for 2 days a fortnight, not "not weekdays".

As a rule, landlords can't mandate for how many visitors tenants are allowed to have in their home, nor how frequently.

"House rules" are niceties but not legally enforceable. Technically, Anne is not doing anything wrong. She's being antisocial to be sure, but she's not breaking any tenancy laws by having her boyfriend in her home.

The only recourse OP has if Anne won't make her boyfriend leave is to serve notice.

Actually, @bigdecisionstomake make a good point, you need to look up the HMO regs for the relevant LA. HMOs require different property standards and if he's moved in it will invalidate your insurance and put you at risk of prosecution.

The RLA helpline can be good and membership is inexpensive.

How awful for betsy.

I think you need to serve formal notice terminating Ann's tenancy.

Let’s be clear, not place-marking.

No. The op and Betsy need to accept adults in a houseshare should be perfectly able to have their girlfriends/boyfriends stay over. As I say it was the norm in my student days none of this 'not allowed' stuff.

Why should they?

If Ann doesn't want to accept living in an all-female household, then she shouldn't have moved in.

For all any of us know Betsy has been assaulted in the past. She may find the BF's presence (especially in a state of undress) very threatening. Or maybe he is sneery about her - not saying anything that he could be challenged on, but being wordlessly nasty. (And don't say this doesn't;t happen, because it does. In fact, if she feels too uncomfortable to go back, it suggests that something is happening, even if it's not something that would upset a lot of us. Maybe he spends an hour in the toilet every morning and leaves it rank! Or hogs the TV.

And at the moment, people are pretty much trapped in their homes, and Betsy can't use the communal areas.

Betsy has EVERY right to live in a man-free zone if she wishes - that is why she chose this particular house share. Why should she have to accommodate Ann and her BF?

Get a ring doorbell to get evidence to kick her out

Random suggest double the room rent for double occupancy and give Betsy a massive reduction?

Thinking you can alter terms easier than serving notice at the moment?

@forrestgreen

Get a ring doorbell to get evidence to kick her out

Nice idea but you really can't put tenants under surveillance it's illegal.

Would it help if you had some sort of mediation session between Ann and Betsy?

I know that Betsy is 100% in the right, but as already discussed you can’t throw Ann out right now, so you’re going to have to help build an agreement between them.

It’s shit for Betsy but some of the suggestions on this thread are frankly unlawful. If OP wants to serve Ann notice then do it in the proper way but don’t try and get yourself in hot water legally.

Also the space is not an all-female space, as much as some of the pearl clutchers on this thread want it to be. OP wanted women because she thought they’d be better tenants but it turns out, the Anns of this world don’t magically turn into perfect housemates.