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AIBU?

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Original poster

Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

647 replies

FirstAvenue · 15/03/2021 16:05

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

OP posts:
Fieldsofstars · 15/03/2021 17:27

Start charging per night hes there, since rules haven’t been followed.
Although, they could want to do that which would backfire.

justilou1 · 15/03/2021 17:28

Isn't that virtually Anne's admission that the boyfriend IS living there, then??? Why does she get to hold everyone hostage? That's not fair at all.

murbblurb · 15/03/2021 17:29

What @Lockheart said, despite falling foul of the playground attitudes that facts are somehow insulting. The OP is a landlord, not an enforcer. He/she cannot harrass tenants (although as an HMO, can go into the communal areas and cannot even end tenancies; all landlords can do is start legal process to evict tenants. Backlog now about two years in England and probably growing. unfortunately there is a piss-taker tenant and there is NOTHING that can be done by the landlord.

the tenants CAN end tenancies. Betsy's only option is to give her notice and leave, which she may not want to do. But the landlord can't help beyond evicting Shagga.

I let out a shared house once, a long time ago when rules were different. And yes, you let to four and you end up with eight!

JustLyra · 15/03/2021 17:30

@FirstAvenue

Thanks for all the comments and thanks for the understanding. It's difficult to include all relevant facts, but for clarity, there are currently four in the house, yes I pay the bills, and Charlotte and Daisy are OK with the situation.

I too had thought of calling the police but I would have struggled to say what offence he had committed. The only thing I could think of was "trespass, i.e. refusing to leave having been asked to leave in a reasonable manner". I had already said to Betsy that if she felt threatened in any way then she should call the police, but I don't think it has reached that stage yet and obviously I am trying to avoid that.

Ann has previously said she will move out as soon as she can as long as the boyfriend can stay in the mean time but I have insisted that house rules are adhered to for the remainder of her tenancy.

I do have friends in the area and they are willing to help but we are just not sure what we should do next.

Do you realise that 5 people living there, as appears to be the case, makes it a large HMO?

That could have serious implications for you in terms of license and insurance and the likes.

You need to give Ann notice, both to show Betsy, Anne and the BF that you are taking it seriously AND to cover your own back in case anything happens.

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2021 17:30

Ann has previously said she will move out as soon as she can as long as the boyfriend can stay in the mean time but I have insisted that house rules are adhered to for the remainder of her tenancy.

Is the boyfriend otherwise homeless, then? Shit.

I think a house meeting - via video/Zoom if need be - where you make it very clear you are speaking to the whole house. ALL guests to be confined to bedrooms only, not in communal areas at all, and Ann given notice...

MrsPeacockInTheLibrary · 15/03/2021 17:30

Put one of those ring door bells on the property where you can see who is leaving and entering. He should not have a key for example, and he should not be there if she is not.

mybonnieliesovertheocean2 · 15/03/2021 17:31

It doesnt matter that other tenants dont mind this man staying over. One of the tenants doesnt like it, she agreed to a female only tenancy and is now having to put up with a man there regularly. You need to send a warning letter to anne. I am in the uk and my son rents and he can be asked to leave with 2 months notice so unsure why you believe its 6.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 15/03/2021 17:31

Well how odd. I shared many a house in my student days and never once thought it was any of my business who my house mates had staying as long as they didn't eat my food or hog the bathroom. This Betsy is going to struggle wherever she lives if she can't handle bfs staying over. She needs to perhaps move back to her parents until she can afford a place of her own.

'My question is more about what I can say to Betsy who is upset about going home tonight.'

Op, you're the LL not the agony aunt.

I understand it is part of your archaic tenancy agreement however perhaps you need to relax a bit. It's like a saga from the old days when girls had to stay in female only accommodation 🙄.

SerendipityJane · 15/03/2021 17:32

I'm not suggesting Betsy SHOULD have to move on. I am saying that in Betsy's situation, I would be looking to move.

I understand that. And I agree, I would be the same myself. Or rather I would have been 35 years ago (so pleased we've moved on since then).

But notice how many people here - all well meaning - decided that Betsy needs to sort out the situation that was not of her own making, rather than addressing Ann and her boyfriends behaviour. So once again "the menz" get a free pass.

It's also worth noting how little the law exists to protect people in this situation. Frankly the best way of removing the boyfriend would be to call the police and tell them he's attending a vigil for Sarah Everard. They'd be round in a flash.

JustLyra · 15/03/2021 17:32

@mybonnieliesovertheocean2

It doesnt matter that other tenants dont mind this man staying over. One of the tenants doesnt like it, she agreed to a female only tenancy and is now having to put up with a man there regularly. You need to send a warning letter to anne. I am in the uk and my son rents and he can be asked to leave with 2 months notice so unsure why you believe its 6.
He cannot be asked to leave with 2 months notice at the moment. Notice periods have been extended due to Covid.
FireflyRainbow · 15/03/2021 17:33

Give Ann notice ASAP.

1Morewineplease · 15/03/2021 17:33

If your tenancy agreement used the word 'should' with regards to boyfriends staying over then you might be in trouble.
It's a vague term.
However, you need to approach Anne and tell her that he is staying too much and that it is affecting her tenancy agreement. Again, the word ' should' might be her response.

Justgorgeous · 15/03/2021 17:34

Go round and stand up for Betsy by asking him to leave and make sure he understands he’s allowed to stay 2 nts every 14 and give Anne her official notice. Assert your authority and stand up for the girls that are sticking to your rules.

IrmaFayLear · 15/03/2021 17:35

@GetOffYourHighHorse Shock

Really nice attitude there. So Anne is a silly prude who should move back home. Strewth.

SerendipityJane · 15/03/2021 17:36

This Betsy is going to struggle wherever she lives if she can't handle bfs staying over

Yeah, she needs to "woman up", "put on her big girl pants", and frankly stop being such a snowflake, eh ?

OK, so Ann is breaking the rules, but Betsy just needs to learn that's what happens for men and deal with it ?

Give over.

Wiredforsound · 15/03/2021 17:36

No charging him bills - you’ll be giving him rights.
No letting then stay together until they find somewhere new - they could do that tomorrow if they wanted. The simple fact is that Anne has broken her contract and has moved in a man who has no right to be there and without agreement from you or the other housemates. This is making other members of the household uncomfortable. You need to tell him to get out of the house. Then you need to give her notice.

IrmaFayLear · 15/03/2021 17:37

Sorry, that should have been Betsy! Poor reading comprehension skills!

GreyhoundG1rl · 15/03/2021 17:38

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Well how odd. I shared many a house in my student days and never once thought it was any of my business who my house mates had staying as long as they didn't eat my food or hog the bathroom. This Betsy is going to struggle wherever she lives if she can't handle bfs staying over. She needs to perhaps move back to her parents until she can afford a place of her own.

'My question is more about what I can say to Betsy who is upset about going home tonight.'

Op, you're the LL not the agony aunt.

I understand it is part of your archaic tenancy agreement however perhaps you need to relax a bit. It's like a saga from the old days when girls had to stay in female only accommodation 🙄.

Presumably Betsy deliberately rented space in an all female environment for a reason? It's irrelevant what that reason was.
whataboutbob · 15/03/2021 17:41

I’m afraid there’s no quick answer here but you will need to get tough with Ann. The police won’t get involved at this stage, there’s no crime here. Eviction will take at least 6 months to complete. My mother managed a student house and I’ve if they girls made all sorts of trouble, mum had to grab the bull by the horns and ask her to leave, which she eventually did. You could just say it’s not working out, she needs to find a place with her boyfriend, maybe try letting her off a couple of weeks’ rent if she moves within 4-8 weeks. Then Betsy will feel listened to.

GetOffYourHighHorse · 15/03/2021 17:41

'it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.'

Rather than trying to control adults relationships I would instead make it one of the rules that the house is cleaned frequently and doesn't become smelly. It isn’t over occupying that makes a house smell, it is the lack of cleaning.

Perhaps provide Flash and a hoover to get them started?

'Yeah, she needs to "woman up", "put on her big girl pants", and frankly stop being such a snowflake, eh ?'

No. The op and Betsy need to accept adults in a houseshare should be perfectly able to have their girlfriends/boyfriends stay over. As I say it was the norm in my student days none of this 'not allowed' stuff.

willithappen · 15/03/2021 17:42

Are you in Scotland or England (or elsewhere)? This affects any advice you may be given as tenancy rules are different in each place

I highly doubt you will be able to get en eviction order on Anne that will stand up if it went to the tribunal based on that alone.

If it's Scotland I can provide you a bit more advise

JustLyra · 15/03/2021 17:42

No. The op and Betsy need to accept adults in a houseshare should be perfectly able to have their girlfriends/boyfriends stay over. As I say it was the norm in my student days none of this 'not allowed' stuff.

There's a massive difference between a boyfriend staying over and one moving in, as this one appears to have done.

IntermittentParps · 15/03/2021 17:43

Ann has previously said she will move out as soon as she can as long as the boyfriend can stay in the mean time
So then her protestations that he has not (virtually) moved in or stayed there in the week are clearly lies.

Boomboomboomboom · 15/03/2021 17:43

Serve her with two notices if you can
A s21 notice (6 months) not expiring before the end of a fixed term. This is a mandatory ground.
A s8 notice (using the new forms) relying on ground 12 breach of tenancy and ground 14 statutory nuisance annoyance which can expire immediately because you are relying on 14 ( asb). These are discretionary grounds though and the court will only make a possession order if its reasonable
Tell Ann if she doesn't stick to the rules, you'll either or both issue possession proceedings or apply for a breach of contract injunction requiring her to comply with the (I hope incorporated into tenancy agreement) House rules.
The police will only be interested in potential covid rule breaches *unlikely.
Hopefully she'll leave or boyfriend will stop staying over.

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2021 17:44

But notice how many people here - all well meaning - decided that Betsy needs to sort out the situation that was not of her own making, rather than addressing Ann and her boyfriends behaviour. So once again "the menz" get a free pass.

It's not about the men getting a free pass, or expecting the victim to sort out the issue.

Practically speaking, and in terms of the law, there isn't anyone to enforce anything on Betsy's behalf. Betsy is in a shit situation, her flatmate and the boyfriend have put her in a shit situation.

But there's no one to "sort out" that shit situation.

The LL can mediate by reminding everyone of the house rules.
The LL can issue notice to Ann to terminate her tenancy.

But the LL cannot effectively stop the BF visiting, cannot evict Ann before 6 months are up, and cannot influence anything within the house itself.

Really, Betsy needs Charlotte & Daisy onside. If they're not, that's really shit for Betsy.

But I don't know who you think should "sort this situation that was not of Betsy's making". It was not of the OP's making either...