Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

[FirstAvenue]

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

@GetOffYourHighHorse

Well how odd. I shared many a house in my student days and never once thought it was any of my business who my house mates had staying as long as they didn't eat my food or hog the bathroom. This Betsy is going to struggle wherever she lives if she can't handle bfs staying over. She needs to perhaps move back to her parents until she can afford a place of her own.

'My question is more about what I can say to Betsy who is upset about going home tonight.'

Op, you're the LL not the agony aunt.

I understand it is part of your archaic tenancy agreement however perhaps you need to relax a bit. It's like a saga from the old days when girls had to stay in female only accommodation 🙄.

You sound like one of the girls I used to share with she had a rotating string of boyfriends who took over communal areas and ogled us her more attractive flatmates. Looking back she had really poor self esteem.

Give ann notice. Pity you can't bill her for the extra water, electricity he has used.

@Number3BigCupOfTea

But it isnt considered OP's home anymore. She rents it out. It is the home of the tenants. He is there by invitation of one if the tenants. The OP cannot make rules about guests. She has rented her house out.

I really dont understand how it can be legal for the OP to stipulate when her tenants can have guests. It is their home.

As always, lots of well intentioned advice from people who don't know about tenancy law. OP hasn't even said what country she's in!

I'm on Team Betsy

Me too don’t know the legalities not my area but hated it when a former flat mates boyfriend moved in. Paid not a penny extra despite earning 3 times my salary as was a trainee at the time. Plus I got to feel like a gooseberry as the smooched in communal areas. Eww. I got really played on that one. They got married but then divorced quite quickly a mean part of me was not sorry

Houseshares are difficult among friends, let alone random strangers.

I recall living in a student accommodation flat and frond giving her boyfriend a key without asking us. He just walked in one day like he lived there! He was also a git who cheated on her and gave her STDs. They both got short sharp shrift and we got the key back.

Can the household not sort it out between them? Where are the other two in this?

I really dont understand how it can be legal for the OP to stipulate when her tenants can have guests. It is their home

She can put whatever conditions of this type that she likes into the tenancy agreement. If prospective tenants don't like it, they can move on.

I think everyone on this thread is on Team Betsy. Doesn't help resolve it from a LL's point of view, unfortunately. There's what's right and fair, and what's legal...

@Nith

I really dont understand how it can be legal for the OP to stipulate when her tenants can have guests. It is their home

She can put whatever conditions of this type that she likes into the tenancy agreement. If prospective tenants don't like it, they can move on.

You may be able to put whatever terms she likes in, but it will be for a court to decide whether they are enforceable or not. The tenant does not have to move until the court orders them to, even then she can play a game of cat and mouse for a few weeks.

AWhisper I really dont understand how it can be legal for the OP to stipulate when her tenants can have guests. It is their home.

Of course its bloody legal. Its a contract which the other party can either agree to or decline to take part in. There seems to be some myth on mumsnet that having any conditions on the number of people who live in a property is in some way illegal. They confuse an entire lease of a single property to one person with houseshares.

This is an HMO. Its licensed for use by a certain number of tenants only. It is illegal for the landlord to permit more than that number to stay there. Additionally, HMOs are exempted from many of the rules on discrimination and its not a breach of a tenant's human rights to privacy or a private life, because it is preventing neither (the tenant can exercise their right to their private life outside their houseshare).

What part of the conditions of a lease limiting occupancy to the person in whose name the lease is do you think are actually illegal?

@FirstAvenue

If each "tenant" has a legal agreement then you certainly cannot simply give her notice and expect her to leave! You will - at the very least - need to give her a Section 21 notice on a rent day which gives her 2 months. The police will 100% not get involved.

Even a notice will have little effect if she chooses not to leave after the 2+ months. You will then need to go to County Court and get a possession orderwhich gives a set date for possession. Only after that can you escalate it to the High Court [!] and get the enforcement officers round to evict her.

This is a tricky situation and you would do very well to take legal advice. It is - for example - a criminal offence to "throw her out"

Oh the joys of being a "landlady"

If someone is paying for one person, then surely that's one person. A bf moving in is two people.... surely they are in breach of contract then?

I did move out of a houseshare when someone moved in their gf, who was, of course, "just staying over". It was intolerable. She was always there, always in the bathroom, eating other people's food, and the pair of them would lay stoned in the communal living room so I would be confined to my bedroom. When the housemate threatened me with a knife because I objected to the gf using all the hot water I spent the night with my desk jammed across the door and then packed up and moved out the next morning.

@GreenlandTheMovie if he had moved in then you would be correct, but as far as OP knows at the moment he's just a guest. One who's overstayed his welcome, but still just a guest.

Landlords cannot generally dictate how many guests tenants are allowed nor how often, just as they can't dictate that all their tenants are vegan or only wear certain shoes. Don't confuse house rules with a legal contract.

Tenants are allowed quiet enjoyment of their home and that includes having guests and visitors.

Notice delivered tonight. The boyfriend is no longer allowed in the property.

Police will be called if he arrives.

Hopefully Romeo and Juliet will vacate earlier than six months.

if she breaches rules its not 6 mths notice at all - I would get some advice asap

If she's inviting him to stay overnight without the home owners permission does that invoke some kind of squatting?

She's in a house share she doesn't rent the whole property, does that change her claim to the house and who she can invite in etc? How old are they all? Ann sounds very immature.

[quote Lockheart]@GreenlandTheMovie if he had moved in then you would be correct, but as far as OP knows at the moment he's just a guest. One who's overstayed his welcome, but still just a guest.

Landlords cannot generally dictate how many guests tenants are allowed nor how often, just as they can't dictate that all their tenants are vegan or only wear certain shoes. Don't confuse house rules with a legal contract.

Tenants are allowed quiet enjoyment of their home and that includes having guests and visitors.[/quote]
If he is staying overnight and that is not permitted in the terms of the lease, then the tenant who permits that is in breach of contract and can be evicted.

Landlords can indeed "dictate" as you put it, how many guests tenants are allowed and how often, particularly if their visit breach rules relating to parties or disturbances to neighbours. Such terms are standard in leases of HMOs.

The term in law is "invitee" by the way, not guest, and if one tenant is objecting to the presence of an invitee, it changes the status of their legal right to be there. Complex area of law to explain on here.

Do you have any experience in this field at all? Are you even aware that the rules on HMOs in many local authority's licensing conditions make landlords personally liable for disturbances caused by the their tenants in the vicinity of the HMO, including the street outside?

And in fact, I have seen when working with an HMO department local authorities imposing additional rules where neighbours have complained of disturbance that tenants must remove their shoes when using the communal stairwell to access flatted dwellings.

Quiet enjoyment does not include breaching the terms of the lease relating to overnight stays or disturbing or harassing other tenants. That is the absolute opposite of quiet enjoyment.

I don't understand people saying "call the police on him" . The boyfriend is not committing any offence.

Imagine if you stayed the night with someone and the police collared you, when all you had done was go back to a bloke's flatshare!

Clearly Ann and bf are entitled arseholes and the only recourse is to say, "Ann, you're out by the end of your contract" - which is what OP has done.

Just to say there are no further developments this morning, my friend who lives locally and whom the tenants know, knocked on the door this morning and only Daisy was there, which was good to hear.

I'm taking legal advice and considering options but my priority in all this has got to be Betsy and making sure that she does not feel uncomfortable in her home. At the moment, everything seems OK.

Ann has agreed to vacate as soon as reasonably possible. I've said I won't hold her to her notice period and will write a good reference if she finds somewhere quickly and sticks to the "rules" in the meantime.

Ann has agreed to vacate as soon as reasonably possible. I've said I won't hold her to her notice period and will write a good reference if she finds somewhere quickly and sticks to the "rules" in the meantime.

Please just cover yourself and issue a section 21! It starts the clock.

[quote Thelittleweasel]@FirstAvenue

If each "tenant" has a legal agreement then you certainly cannot simply give her notice and expect her to leave! You will - at the very least - need to give her a Section 21 notice on a rent day which gives her 2 months. The police will 100% not get involved.

Even a notice will have little effect if she chooses not to leave after the 2+ months. You will then need to go to County Court and get a possession orderwhich gives a set date for possession. Only after that can you escalate it to the High Court [!] and get the enforcement officers round to evict her.

This is a tricky situation and you would do very well to take legal advice. It is - for example - a criminal offence to "throw her out"

Oh the joys of being a "landlady"[/quote]
At the moment due to Covid the notice period has been extended from 2 months to 6 months.

The advice I have received is that a S21 notice is only valid as from a particular rent day, can anyone confirm?

A s21 will be invalid if served to operate during the fixed term period.

When does/did the fixed term end?

But it's Betsy's home, too - and she moved in on the understanding that it was an all-female household with restrictions on overnight guests. She obviously felt comfortable and safe with these conditions.

Absolutely agree. There are all manner of reasons why a woman would choose single sex accommodation and it's not as if the landlord didn't make things clear up front. No overnight guests more than a couple of nights a week.

Betsy has had her space invaded and no longer feels at home in her own home. Ann is spectacularly selfish, as is her partner.

Issue eviction proceedings OP asap.

Pretty clear that there is a minority on MN who think all landlords are the devil incarnate and tenants should be able to do exactly what they wish at all times.

Op use a form 6a. All the information you need is in the notes.