Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

[FirstAvenue]

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

Is there anything in the HMO rules that might help?

@SchadenfreudePersonified

This is not a sarky question - I'm genuinely curious: How is it possible to forbid pets, and evict a tenant who gets (say) a cat, but not forbid an overnight "guest" (or indeed, a stream of overnight guests)?

It isn't. The notion that any tenant can move as many people they like into a rented property when it is expressly forbidden in the lease is just a strange mumsnet fallacy.

In any lease. In HMOs in particular, where co-tenants are assigned the use of one room and shared facilities for their sole use, it is obviously a break if the lease conditions.

Breach of the lease usually entitles the landlord to evict. The issue here is that evictions are currently on hold due to Covid.

It sounds to me as though Ann is twisting the rules - the boyfriend not staying overnight doesn't mean he won't be there from 7am to 11pm, all-but living there. I can understand Betsy's annoyance and, if I were her, I'd withhold rent in protest.

All the new rule means is that the boyfriend won't use the communal areas when Betsy is there to see him. When she's out the door, he'll be back in that kitchen.

I don’t understand why you won’t give her notice (unless I missed that).
At least Betsy would see you’re trying to be proactive rather than letting Ann rule the roost.
If you can’t do the job of managing your property, employ an agency.

Hopefully the rule about guests not using communal areas will put them off staying for extended periods. Staying the night is ok without using a living room or kitchen, but weeks on end, not so much.

@DishingOutDone

I think Betsy is the one who needs to get legal advice, it sounds like the others in the house are making her life pretty shit.

Tbh Betsy sounds like hard work if she is running to the owner all the time. Maube shes not cut out for a house share.

You are failing Betsy here and seem to be bending over to accommodate Ann.

Tell Ann bo guests, period, as she has flouted the rules too often.

You should pay to put Betsy in a nice AirBB until this is resolved.

@Bananalanacake

When I was a lodger in a young couple's home their rule was 'all visitors to be off the premises by 10PM' of course this translates as 'no visitors staying overnight at all'. I was very happy with this, at the time I had an older boyfriend who was unbearably shit in bed, I'd have made that rule up if it didn't exist.

Lol.

It's a reasonable rule and what the OP should add to her lease agreement.

@PerveenMistry

You are failing Betsy here and seem to be bending over to accommodate Ann.

Tell Ann bo guests, period, as she has flouted the rules too often.

You should pay to put Betsy in a nice AirBB until this is resolved.

Absolutely! Let's invent a rule where every time a tenant is inconvenienced, the landlord has to pay for a holiday let for them. Preferably with a spa on site, I guess?

I mean, how outstandingly practical that would be!

@PerveenMistry landlords who are letting properties (we're not talking about a lodger situation) have NO LEGAL RIGHT to dictate visiting hours, the number or the sex of visitors. This is the tenants home and they have a right to live their lives freely and normally within the law.

Having your boyfriend around all the time and taking up the common areas is antisocial as fuck but it's not really something the landlord can stop. The only recourse is to serve Anne notice.

I'm honestly pretty surprised at this thread. Most threads on renting / landlords always go on about how it's the tenants home and they can do what they like, entitlement to quiet enjoyment, how dare the landlord get involved or bother them. This thread is the precise opposite and seems to think a houseshare is nothing more than a boarding house.

As someone who currently lives in a houseshare, I would leave if our landlord tried to tell us how many visitors we were allowed and how often. Apart from being fucking intrusive, it's totally unenforceable. If someone tries to move in a bf/gf by stealth (and funnily enough we did have a similar situation about a year and a half ago) we sorted it out among ourselves (we have a joint and several contract which seems different to OPs). We would only have asked the landlord to intervene as a last resort.

Thanks Squirrels.

I was just curious about what seemed to be an anomaly.

I'm not a landlord, and TBH I don't think I could stand the stress - it seems to be a minefield, unless you are a Rachman and just ignore all the regulations.

And thank you Greenland, too - just saw you also replied.

I'm going to sound stupid, but I have to ask! Are you actually allowed to put rules like that in a tenancy agreement when you're renting out a house?

I get that you can have rules about this sort of stuff when you have a lodger in your own house but when you're renting out a property, can you actually dictate when your tenants can have guests?

I've never rented, and I've never heard of this before so just curious about how it can be allowed

I'm honestly pretty surprised at this thread. Most threads on renting / landlords always go on about how it's the tenants home and they can do what they like, entitlement to quiet enjoyment, how dare the landlord get involved or bother them. This thread is the precise opposite and seems to think a houseshare is nothing more than a boarding house.

But it's Betsy's home, too - and she moved in on the understanding that it was an all-female household with restrictions on overnight guests. She obviously felt comfortable and safe with these conditions.

Ann moved in under the sam conditions and proceeded to break them.

AND - we only have Ann's word that Charlotte and Daisy are happy to have the b/f there on condition he doesn't used shared spaces (though how he is going to manage without access to the lavatory is anyone's guess). Ann - who hasn't exactly shown herself to be honest or considerate of the feelings of others.

As I sy - I'm not a landlord, and have no experience of dealing with tenants, though I was a university lecturer and dealt with tw*tty students, and I know from bitter experience that people like Ann do not improve on acquaintance .

I would serve notice. If she moves the b/f out, it can always be rescinded (if you think that's worth the risk), but it shows that OP is taking things seriously. I would offer Betsy a rent reduction for the duration of Ann's notice period - because I think Ann will make her life a living hell, or offer her the opportunity to leave the lease with no penalties (or indeed, both). But I imagine Betsy will stay if she can see an end to the difficulty.

I don't know whether she is uncomfortable either with men in general, or with this one in particular, or whether she is just sick of not being able oo relax in her own home - that she is paying rent for. Either way, HER feelings are the ones that need to be considered. SHE is not the one breaking the rules that ALL of the girls agreed to before moving in. Any changes should have been discussed prior to Ann shifting her b/f in, when people weren't in a position to feel that it was already a fait accompli, or intimidated by Ann who appears to be quite the little madam a forceful personality determined to get her own way.

If OP isn't very careful she's going to end up losing good tenants and getting stuck with a really bad one.

Betsy is going to feel uncomfortable in the communal areas now anyway, purely because she's now in conflict with A,C and D.

I'm not a landlord and I can't comment on the legal side.

But. If people sign up to a place with certain rules in place and then don't stick them and openly lie about her boyfriend being there I would not hesitate in giving notice.

More worryingly she seems to have got the rest of the house on her side against Betsy. You would be very foolish to agree to her demands. The message it sends is you can rip up the rule book and do what you want.

I wonder how it is for Betsy now. Whether it's openly hostile with three flat mates against her.

I agree with the pp about telling them ALL about the ramifications of her boyfriend staying - higher rent, all being evicted - making it also in their best interests.

@SchadenfreudePersonified yes it is Betsy's home too, but it's still a dispute among the tenants and not really a problem for the landlord.

OP can't just increase Ann's rent (legally). She can't charge Ann and her bf more bills (legally). She can't get heavies or big burly blokes around or otherwise intimidate him out of the house (legally). She has no recourse to enforce the visitors only every other weekend rule.

Betsy is in an unfortunate situation but it's not the OPs fault. Ann is the one creating an uncomfortable situation in the house. It's a dispute between Betsy and Ann (and now C&D too apparently) - nothing to do with the OP.

The only recourse the OP has is to serve Ann notice. The only recourse Betsy has is to leave because, as shitty as it is, Ann is not breaking any terms of the contract. Not ephemeral house rules - the contract.

If Betsy is uncomfortable with shared houses where there may be frequent male visitors - even in an "all-female" houseshare which isn't a guarantee despite what landlords say - then houseshares possibly aren't the right environment for her.

I don't know what is legal, I would find out.
in the mean time, OP could tell Ann, that she is not insured for another extra person, the boyfriend cannot stay, as per the agreement that all the tenants signed & agreed to.
Not every one is happy with a man roaming in his dressing gown, & if one of them does it, then they all might decide its OK. Its 'not.
Ann has lied about when he has been there repeatedly, & you know he has been there for the last 11 days.
Your insurance does not cover for 5 tenants & the rental law for 4 is not the same as for 5, 6 or more people.(you need the info) the bills will increase & you are not paying for this freeloader
Op should give Ann her notice, (as she is a trouble maker)
Op will have to tell Betsie that she has asked Ann to comply, & have given her notice, unfortunately legally the clauses in the rental agreement are not legally binding (if this is the case ?)
& if Ann wants a shag she can presumably go to his (mythical) place

Your insurance does not cover for 5 tenants

A guest is not a tenant, all of the tenants could have a guest in the house at the same time it doesnt mean that she now has 8 tenants ffs

@PyjamaFan

Tell the bf to leave, now. If he refuses call the police.

Yes.

Number3BigCupOfTea what law is Anns bf breaking? It isnt trespass because hes a guest of a tenant

He"s living in somebody else's house and won"t go. I would call the police. It sends a message. Id give notice to Ann immediately.

@Number3BigCupOfTea

He"s living in somebody else's house and won"t go. I would call the police. It sends a message. Id give notice to Ann immediately.

He's there at the invitation of one of the tenants, whose home it is.

There are no laws being broken and it's not the police's job to mediate disputes between tenants.

The boyfriend has been breaking Covid rules. That should be enough to give Ann notice of eviction I should have thought. I agree with PP that Bety is your priority here no matter that the other housemates aren't bothered by the boyfriend staying.

Betsy