Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

[FirstAvenue]

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

Also, I'd be wary of putting Betsy in a difficult position by getting her involved in Facetime calls and all that. Life could become very difficult for her if she is stuck living with them both for the next 6 months. I don't think you actually need evidence to ask her to leave, just give her proper notice and hopefully Ann will move out sooner.

If he’s staying there more time than not then effectively he’s moved in whether or not he has another place to stay. I would try to give Anne a financial incentive to leave ie rent reduction before you go for more drastic legal measures.

If she's insisting her bf stays I would be doubling her rent not offering her a reduction!

How will a rent reduction encourage her to leave? 😂

@boredbuttercup

Why is Betsy having to do all the hard work? Why is she not being supported by the other housemates? Ann needs to be told by them all.

Because Betsy is the one bothered by this and the other housemates either aren't bothered by it or even if they are a little bothered think it isn't worth the conflict and better to keep the peace (as is the same when considering bringing up all housemate issues from washing up to noise)

*Boundaries need to be respected.
It is supposed to be an all female household.
*
Yes boundaries do need to be respected but some people have unreasonable housemates (like one I once had who wanted to know where the rest of us were going whenever we left the house to the point of essentially want to track us because it made her feel safer and more in control). There are 2 sides to every story (although yes Ann does sound inconsiderate in this instance). It's also all female residents but OP even said in her house rules (which aren't legally binding anyway) that partners are allowed to stay so it's still not exclusively female all the time.

*If a bloke turns up you would expect him to stay in his partners room not loiter about in the kitchen in a dressing gown.
*
Yes I actually agree this is Grim and they should be mostly in her room and if they are in communal spaces together appropriately dressed. But although this is a shitty thing to do it's not illegal and doesn't warrant police involvement.

I wouldn't want men in an all female space had I signed up specifically to avoid that.

Again, even in OP's unenforceable rules it still doesn't keep it an exclusively all female space

I am a landlord and I would be going into my property with some heavies and chucking him out and personally handing Ann notice for breach of contract.

And you'd be acting illegally, harassing and intimidating your tenant and I'd hope they'd report you for using 'heavies' to intimidate them. Although yes you'd be well within your right to give Ann notice and I agree this is what OP should do, without the intimidation.

I am a landlord and I would be going into my property with some heavies and chucking him out and personally handing Ann notice for breach of contract.

...And you'd be acting illegally, harassing and intimidating your tenant and I'd hope they'd report you for using 'heavies' to intimidate them. Although yes you'd be well within your right to give Ann notice and I agree this is what OP should do, without the intimidation.

I would not be intimidating my tenant. He is not my tenant he is a trespasser. He would be removed and notice handed directly to Ann. In fact I would just hand her my standard solicitors letter.
No need at all for police involvement and they wouldn't attend anyway unless there was affray.

Give notice anyway to get the ball rolling, in the meantime you’ll just have to be honedt with Betsy with what actions you’re taking, she must understand that there is only so much you can do apart from actually go in there and turf him out

Also going to presume he doesn’t live on his own (as presumably she’d just go to his), so therefore he’s breaking covid rules as neither qualify for a bubble?

I would not be intimidating my tenant. He is not my tenant he is a trespasser. He would be removed and notice handed directly to Ann. In fact I would just hand her my standard solicitors letter.

He's not a trespasser, he's an invited guest of the tenant.

LL's like you give us all a bad name spouting shite like "take in a couple of heavies".

＠JustLyra

She clearly stated that she would not intimidate the tenant. The bit about heavies was quoted.

@Borntohula it’s not controlling when money is involved...if someone’s partner stays over too much who’s footing the bill?
Terms were accepted when signed. If someone feels that it’s not enough they’re more than welcome to move out and get a shared room with partner.
I say this as former beleaguered housemate...we all had partners and LL trusted us to be reasonable but there was always that one person who took the piss. To add insult to injury they took over the common room with their stuff preventing us paying residents from using it

I'll be the millionth person to say serve Anne notice. She's knowingly breaking the terms of your agreement and Betsy has the right to feel safe in her own home. As some have said she may have specifically chosen to live in your house because you were offering a female tennant only environment. Judging from your last update it seems that Anne has no intention of respecting your rules or her housemates. Serve her notice now and although you can't make her leave before 6 months she may elect to seek somewhere new before then. But as a LL I definitely think you need to step in for Betty's sake. Can you call Anne tomorrow morning to discuss once Betsy and other housemates have confirmed that the BF has stayed overnight tonight? Good luck.

@BlackCatShadow

＠JustLyra

She clearly stated that she would not intimidate the tenant. The bit about heavies was quoted.

Yes the bit about heavies was quoted from cuparfull's original post. She clearly has every intention of turning up at her tenant hose with 'heavies' (as she put it) to turf out the tenants guest which would still be intimidating the tenant.

If cup really is a landlord she has no concept of the fact that once she rents out the house it's someone else's home and she doesn't get carte Blanche on who's there or trespassing and would in fact be trespassing herself to show up and enter at a rented property without sufficient notice as tenants have a right to quiet enjoyment and notice of any visits by the landlord/workmen.

@fridgepants

" I shared many a house in my student days and never once thought it was any of my business who my house mates had staying as long as they didn't eat my food or hog the bathroom. This Betsy is going to struggle wherever she lives if she can't handle bfs staying over. She needs to perhaps move back to her parents until she can afford a place of her own."

This isn't that, though, by the sounds of things. When I was house-sharing I would always ask if it was fine for my then DP to stay over every other weekend (we were long-distance) just to manage expectations. That's not the same as someone de facto moving in.

I had a really tough time mental-health wise in my last houseshare, and part of that was because I was a lodger and the landlord just invited his (much younger, male) friend to sleep in the living room downstairs indefinitely. I felt like I didn't have my own space and had an extra person to live around that wasn't there when I decided to take the room.

Also, sharing a place with a couple is a very different dynamic to sharing with separate housemates.

Completely agree - I rented a room from a guy who then got into a relationship with the next lodger he rented a room to. So I was in a small house with a couple and it was really uncomfortable. Dont blame Betsey for not wanting to be around this.

Why are you getting so involved? Can’t the house mates sort it out between them?

Not the best twist, but Ann, Charlotte and Daisy have got together with some proposed amended house rules. They are happy to agree that guests can't spend time in the communal areas. That way Betsy avoids direct contact with any male guests and hopefully feels less uneasy in her own home. Ann has again confirmed to me that her boyfriend lives elsewhere and works elsewhere and won't be staying overnight during the week.

^ I don't think I'd be particularly happy with that if I were Betsy.

I agree, it seems a bit controlling to ban someone's partner from staying over.

I think it's entitled to move your shag into your shared house eve though he's making another tenant uncomfortable.

Have you challenged her to say so far she’s said this and it hasn’t been true?

Unless they're amazing tenants that you want to keep I'd say no amendments to the house rules. If you do not like them you're free to leave.

If you roll over on this what will they try to negotiate on next? You're going to lose control/respect if they think they can dictate to you.

Evict Ann and boyfriend they are breaking the rules it's your house
End of

@BlackCatShadow

＠JustLyra

She clearly stated that she would not intimidate the tenant. The bit about heavies was quoted.

Apologies!! in my copy and paste (as I couldn't quote) I cut and kept the wrong bit and didn't notice

@FirstAvenue

Not the best twist, but Ann, Charlotte and Daisy have got together with some proposed amended house rules. They are happy to agree that guests can't spend time in the communal areas. That way Betsy avoids direct contact with any male guests and hopefully feels less uneasy in her own home. Ann has again confirmed to me that her boyfriend lives elsewhere and works elsewhere and won't be staying overnight during the week.

But the boyfriend/s would still be using the bathroom and presumably the kitchen.

And saying he won’t stay in the week means all weekend every weekend, probably inc Friday nights. It’s not a compromise, it’s Ann imposing her choices on the whole house. Time to serve notice and get serious about the lurking boyfriend.

@FirstAvenue

Not the best twist, but Ann, Charlotte and Daisy have got together with some proposed amended house rules. They are happy to agree that guests can't spend time in the communal areas. That way Betsy avoids direct contact with any male guests and hopefully feels less uneasy in her own home. Ann has again confirmed to me that her boyfriend lives elsewhere and works elsewhere and won't be staying overnight during the week.

Personally, I'd still serve Ann notice. This might star out ok but I bet the B/F will creep into other areas - she has shown she can't be trusted. And she's obviously lying about him living elsewhere - he may be paying rent elsewhere, but he's living in your property.

PLUS- Betsy has not been consulted on these house rules. Why not? Why should they be allowed to move the goalposts? Ann has obviously got them onside ("Besty is picking on me - you two don't mind him, do you? Why shouldn't the man I love and want to spend the restt of my life with not be here all the time? Forever . . . ")

Agreeing to these changes is allowing Ann to dictate her own terms. AN what happened when Charlotte moves a B/F in. And then Daisy Flls in love . . . ?

Serve Ann with her notice. Tell her that the one weekend a fortnight rule stands until she is gone. And during that weekend the BF stays in her room and doesn't infest communal areas (includes the bathroom).

Regardless of the new agreement, trust me when I tell you that you should still give Ann notice. She's broken the tenancy rules and lies to your face.

*falls in love, not Fls

Apologies for other typos