To be angry at the frenzy caused by others last night

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I think it was utterly disrespectful. We are in lockdown and it was not the right time for a protest. I agree with a quiet, respectful, socially distanced space to grieve - which is what appeared to happen during the day.

Protest in Leeds today attended by hundreds of women @Flaxmeadow.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-56407072

Well I can see why it wasn’t that popular @LakieLady.

Thanks for posting that link. That woman arguing was very dense, and yet so very sure.

LakieLady
The far-right have jumped on that particular bandwagon, the media (in London or anywhere else) didn't have to accuse them of it.

Bandwagon? WTH!

Alsohuman
I'm talking in particular about CSE gangs in the north and the lack of support for the victims from feminists and the middle class London based left

LexMitior
Well I can see why it wasn’t that popular @LakieLady.

Thanks for posting that link. That woman arguing was very dense, and yet so very sure.

It was me who posted the link, yes the woman wearing the Corbyn TShirt is dense but the bloke in the grey jacket she is arguing with according to LakieLady is a far right bandwagon jumper. He is the most sane out of the lot of them

And people wonder why the Labour party lost so much support in the north

@Flaxmeadow Anger at how girls and women are treated (in Rochdale and anywhere) isnt a bandwagon. But Tommy Robinson, himself a man who has strangled his girlfriend in the street, is jumping on "the bandwagon" when he pretends to give a shit about women's rights. He doesnt he is using it to promote his own agenda, even if it means risking a trial collapsing. It is similar (sorry to derail) to how BLM is not a bandwagon, but a friends (white, with 0 previous interest in anti-racism) ex-boyfriend using the term "Karen" to rant about a woman standing up to him is also jumping on a bandwagon.
I dont think everyone needs to agree on everything to support a cause (we would never get anything done) but I do think its important to be able to spot and name the opportunsists who will gladly latch onto and take over any cause they can.

Sorry, I worded that badly. What I was trying to say was that the far right used the trials as a bandwagon, not that the trials themselves were a bandwagon.

It was me who posted the link, yes the woman wearing the Corbyn TShirt is dense but the bloke in the grey jacket she is arguing with according to LakieLady is a far right bandwagon jumper. He is the most sane out of the lot of them

Please don't twist my words, @Flaxmeadow. I was referring to Tommy Robinson and his ilk as jumping on a bandwagon, not the man in the clip (which I have only just seen) who is plainly not a member or follower of the EDL or any of the other loathsome neo-nazi groups that proliferate from time to time.

Please don't twist my words,... I was referring to Tommy Robinson and his ilk as jumping on a bandwagon, not the man in the clip (which I have only just seen) who is plainly not a member or follower of the EDL or any of the other loathsome neo-nazi groups that proliferate from time to time

But aren't you jumping on the bandwagon as well? Scoring political points

That's the point the man in the video is making, who BTW has just watched TR, among others, speak. He's saying "they have legitimate concerns". The woman screaming at him, calling him a "Nazi" , isn't interested in what is being said on the platform, she just wants to shout abuse and signal her woke virtues. She doesn't care about what is actually being said, or about the man she is screaming abuse at and his concerns for the women and girls in his city. It's all just an opportunity, in her mind, to "bash the fash". She is accusing the multi ethnic speakers and multi ethnic audience, who are defending the working class victims of horrific exploitation, of being "Nazis" and "fascist traitors". This is how ridiculous the identity obsessed left have become now

It's the same with the protesters in Clapham. They wanted to bash the police. I'm sure many others, especially earlier in the day, were there to pay respects and show sympathy but others were there to cause trouble and score political points.

I've just seen more footage of the battle of the bandstand. The red haired woman is being asked to move from the bandstand but is clinging onto the rails, refusing, and so the police seem to have no choice but to arrest her. Why doesn't she just move when asked?

Why doesn't she just move when asked?

Because we were being kettled inside the bandstand. What the video doesn't show is the human wall of police making it difficult if not impossible to leave. There are only two small exits from the bandstand, unless you clamber over the railing, and both were blocked by the police outside. The bandstand is high up too. There was probably 10ft between the bandstand railing and where the line of protestors started.

The police were the ones who INVITED protestors to go onto the bandstand in the first place, made no attempt to stop protestors going on, then formed a human wall around them to kettle them. IMO it was pure stitch up, they wanted to cordon a few women away from the rest of the mob (didn't matter to them what women) to give themselves space to make some arrests to make a display of power in the hope of intimidating the other women. Which backfired.

You have no idea what it was like inside that bandstand. It was an absolute melee of press and police. At least five times more men on the bandstand than women. I saw police chivvying a disabled woman down the slope and her falling and being injured due to not being allowed to walk down the steep uneven slope at her own pace, and not being given space to be able to leave, and police screaming at her for falling. They only permitted her to leave rather than be arrested when they saw she was disabled.

so the police seem to have no choice but to arrest her.

Why do you feel police "have no choice" but to arrest a girl sitting silently on the ground? When those same police were happy to ignore and pointedly not arrest the four violent male anti-maskers who physically scuffled with police, and the two men with loudhailers giving speeches?

My interpretation is the same as @Flaxmeadow. Refusing to move and holding to the railings. Clearly.

Isn’t it most likely that police and protesters behaved inappropriately - and with a lack of clarity with rules around protests during pandemic, there was fault on both sides.

I don't think anyone wanted the protest to end the way it did. The police were always going to be criticised for either being ineffective or over reacting. Perhaps here they did over react though they are a far cry from the police of Myanmar which someone referenced above. It does appear there were a small group who were determined to generate a reaction from the police and I've no doubt that they valued this above the meaning of the protest. From a policing point of view it's almost impossible to respond to a small element in a large crowd. Overall I hope the underpinning message doesnt get lost in the anger at the way this event ended.

Four protestors arrested. At least 26 police officers assaulted (punched, kicked, spat at and had water bottles thrown at them).

MP’s in the HofC also described the written reports they had received from serving officers of the abuse they received.

But that’s ok, they ‘deserved it’?

The vigil changed the minute people arrived with placards and loud speakers and started trying to deliver speeches and began chanting. That’s not a respectful vigil, it’s a protest.

I totally agree there is a need for action. There’s a time and place and a way to do that and this was not it.

@dorsetdays. Yep! So if the police need to do better, surely the same applies to the protesters who ALSO behaved poorly?

I also think the stereotype of poor, innocent, defenceless women v big, burly police officers is hugely sexist.

It’s true. They don’t have to be big; they used to be required to be a certain height to join.

Anyway it’s the mentality, not the waist size

@FerrisWheelTrain

My interpretation is the same as *@Flaxmeadow*. Refusing to move and holding to the railings. Clearly.

So it’s that they were uncooperative? Yes I can imagine.

The police have lots of responsibility and duties beyond the law the public must obey. On duty, they have to meet those standards.

@FerrisWheelTrain

I also think the stereotype of poor, innocent, defenceless women v big, burly police officers is hugely sexist.

Absolutely, the constant referencing of "She's only 5'2" and weighs nothing." So can people only be arrested if they are over a certain height/weight? I wonder how tall you have to be to qualify. I'm not quite 5'4" so can I go out and commit crimes without fear of arrest or am I a bit too tall.

It is really patronising and makes her sound like a vulnerable child rather than an adult woman who had decided to be there.

@ancientgran exactly.

OP you’re coming across pretty badly -as though

• you don’t believe women have the right to hold a vigil but you are happy with the Police cheerfully escorting footy fans
• women shouldn’t complain about anything even if one of us is murdered...
• Police can do no wrong. In fact its fine to arrest any woman sitting in the ground

Personally my friends and family have been shocked by the actions of the Met on Saturday night. Seeing the Police violently pushing people was a huge eye opener. This makes it really hard to trust the Police. And I don’t mean just that they might rape or murder you. The circulating of the meme is just unbelievably shitty behaviour.

@LakieLady

I agree that it is shocking that there wasn't more of an outcry about the grooming/trafficking cases at the time, especially as they involved children.

But there wasn't an immediate focus for them, iyswim, there were lots of cases, in lots of different areas, spread out over quite a time period. That sort of series of events is never going to have the impact of the one-off, shocking crime.

It is also shocking that when a brown girl from London is groomed she loses her citizenship.

@ancientgran @FerrisWheelTrain

Totally agree with your recent comments.

@Dorsetdays

Four protestors arrested. At least 26 police officers assaulted (punched, kicked, spat at and had water bottles thrown at them).

MP’s in the HofC also described the written reports they had received from serving officers of the abuse they received.

But that’s ok, they ‘deserved it’?

The vigil changed the minute people arrived with placards and loud speakers and started trying to deliver speeches and began chanting. That’s not a respectful vigil, it’s a protest.

I totally agree there is a need for action. There’s a time and place and a way to do that and this was not it.

100% this. The footage is shocking of the behaviour of some of the protesters.

And I mean the behaviour of both men and women. I saw footage of a man launch an unprovoked attack on a police officer, followed by cheers and chants from the women standing nearby. I'm sorry, I don't care what anyone says. That's unacceptable.

I just find it hard to understand why someone who claims they’re not an activist thought the best course of action was to totally ignore the police officer asking her to move on and refuse to give her name. Is that the normal behaviour of someone who hasn’t done anything wrong, has no intentions and has had no previous interactions with the police.

And interesting that people go to a ‘vigil’ with pre printed cards so they can hand out legal advice and contact numbers. Probably not the first thing I’d have thought to take to a vigil but there you go, takes all sorts!