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To be angry at the frenzy caused by others last night

999 replies

BarometerTV · 14/03/2021 12:56

I think it was utterly disrespectful. We are in lockdown and it was not the right time for a protest. I agree with a quiet, respectful, socially distanced space to grieve - which is what appeared to happen during the day.

OP posts:
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11
asurvivornotinmyname · 15/03/2021 20:12

Half the media is based in Manchester.

LexMitior · 15/03/2021 20:14

Well it doesn't sound like Manchester took to the protest either? So Northern women didn't like it. Is that fair?

Confused by your apparent dislike of the hockey stick crowd but you want them involved or not?

Are there no feminist groups in the northern part of the country?

Flaxmeadow · 15/03/2021 20:16

It's quite upsetting and a lot of women here feel very let down. Can anyone, someone please answer me?

Why have womens groups and feminists ignored what's happening to women and girls, victims of serious organised crime, in the north? Why?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I just genuinely don't understand it

LexMitior · 15/03/2021 20:17

Apparently there was a march as you said. So not ignored then?

Flaxmeadow · 15/03/2021 20:20

Apparently there was a march as you said. So not ignored then

Yes it was a huge march but there were no womens groups or feminist there. That is my point

Why are feminists and womens groups ignoring this?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/03/2021 20:27

@Flaxmeadow

Apparently there was a march as you said. So not ignored then

Yes it was a huge march but there were no womens groups or feminist there. That is my point

Why are feminists and womens groups ignoring this?

I think it's confusing as you say there were no feminists there but that isn't going to be true is it? Do you mean that you didn't see specific feminist organisations / charities there? As obviously there will have been individuals there who were feminists... I appreciate you aren't trying to be antagonistic but your question is a bit confusing and I think me and others are trying to understand what you mean but struggling a bit.
Alsohuman · 15/03/2021 20:28

@Flaxmeadow

Apparently there was a march as you said. So not ignored then

Yes it was a huge march but there were no womens groups or feminist there. That is my point

Why are feminists and womens groups ignoring this?

How on earth do you know that? I reckon every woman on that march was a feminist or they wouldn’t have bothered.
rosetylersbiggun · 15/03/2021 20:29

Why have womens groups and feminists ignored what's happening to women and girls, victims of serious organised crime, in the north?

You need to ask feminists who live in the North.

Like yourself.

MercyBooth · 15/03/2021 20:34

@rosetylersbiggun From 15 months ago.

Tue 10-Dec-19 18:09:15
www.theguardian.com/media/2019/dec/10/woman-says-account-hacked-to-post-fake-story-about-hospital-boy?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&fbclid=IwAR2DBtk_lnVJVhA4abEwry0NDe8Od7eLnv1C8VYWUGv46hQBXY2EyYFDDMo

I was hacked,' says woman whose account claimed hospital boy photo was staged
Woman denies posting false information that photo of four-year-old was political stunt

Charlet/AFP via Getty Images
A medical secretary has claimed her Facebook account was hacked after it was used to post false information claiming that a photograph of an ill boy on the floor at Leeds General Infirmary was staged for political purposes.

The woman denied posting the allegation that four-year-old Jack Willment-Barr’s mother placed him on the floor specifically to take the picture which became symbolic of the NHS’s troubles after it appeared on the front page of Monday’s Daily Mirror.

“I was hacked. I am not a nurse and I certainly don’t know anyone in Leeds,” said the woman, whose name the Guardian is withholding because she says she has received death threats. “I’ve had to delete everything as I have had death threats to myself and my children.”

The original viral post on the medical secretary’s Facebook account said “I am a nurse myself” and cited a “good friend of mine” at Leeds General

It claimed the boy in the photo “was in fact put there by his mother who then took photos on her mobile phone and then uploaded it to media outlets”. The post dismissed the pictures of the ill boy as “another Momentum propaganda story”, despite the fact the hospital had already apologised for his treatment.

She said she had tried to report the hack of her Facebook account to the advice service Action Fraud, although this claim could not be verified.

Claims that the photo was staged spread rapidly across social media and messaging services on Monday night, potentially reaching millions of people after being amplified by Conservative politicians, celebrities and some journalists.

The row over Jack’s treatment has become a central part of the election campaign, with Boris Johnson being criticised for repeatedly refusing to look at the photograph he was shown by a journalist during an interview on Monday.

Despite the claim that the photo was staged having been acknowledged as false, it has continued to spread on both Facebook and Twitter, largely through individual low-follower accounts cutting and pasting the original text to share with their friends.
One version, posted by a man who claims to work for the British army’s intelligence corps, has received 2,000 shares on Facebook; another, from a person saying they were a former soldier, has received a further 500.

The same claim was shared on Twitter, where it was spread by much more significant accounts. The Telegraph columnist Allison Pearson retweeted screenshots of the Facebook page to her followers twice, telling them “I presume this is genuine”, and adding later that the photo was “100% faked”. Her posts have received thousands of retweets between them.

According to the researcher Marc Owen Jones, Pearson is “perhaps the most influential proponent of the faked floor theory”, although a tweet from the former England cricketer Kevin Pietersen sent to Piers Morgan may have been seen by more people as a one-off.

While many of the users who initially posted the claims to Twitter shared it with identical wording, there is little indication that the false narrative is being artificially boosted by automated accounts.

Twitter metadata shows the vast majority of the tweets were posted through the social network’s website or smartphone apps, and the accounts sharing them overwhelmingly appear to be those of real people with an interest in politics.

Despite claims of a staged photo, Leeds General Infirmary has confirmed that Jack did suffer due to an exceptionally busy week

Our hospitals are extremely busy at the moment and we are very sorry that Jack’s family had a long wait in our emergency department,” said Dr Yvette Oade, the chief medical officer at Leeds Teaching Hospitals NHS trust.

“We are extremely sorry that there were only chairs available in the treatment room, and no bed. This falls below our usual high standards, and for this we would like to sincerely apologise to Jack and his family.

Flaxmeadow · 15/03/2021 20:36

I'm asking feminists in general, from anywhere. This site has a feminist board and is well represented by feminists. I see groups being organised, here and other places online, meetings about womens issues rights and that's great. Lengthy discussions about all kinds of womens issues. But why is there no discussions or action on this particular crime happening, mostly, in northern towns?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/03/2021 20:41

But @Flaxmeadow if you feel (rightly) that the issue hasn't been tackled enough by feminists in the north of England and you are a feminist from the north of England, wouldn't it make sense to be an active participant or instigator of such campaigning?

I'm genuinely confused what you're asking as you seem to be saying that more is being done elsewhere (which may be true) but you yourself are based in the place you say feminists aren't actively campaigning. But you are one? So why not get campaigning?

I fear this may be me not understanding what you're saying.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/03/2021 20:42

And @Flaxmeadow you said this

Yes it was a huge march but there were no womens groups or feminist there. That is my point

You can't genuinely believe there were no feminists at those marches / demonstrations?

apalledandshocked · 15/03/2021 20:45

[quote Flaxmeadow]Well organise some then

I'm asking why feminists and womens groups have not raised issues, or even discussed it so far. Why is that? I've asked but no answer. The answer just seems to be "organise yourself" buy I want to know why womens groups and feminists haven't already? There are womens groups and feminists on here, can anyone answer me please. This is problem that had been going on for years now. The Jay Report was released over 5 years or 6 even?

Also l, as I've said, three times now, a march actually was organised, against crime gangs targeting girls and women, in the north but the (London) media accused the march of being "right wing" or "EDL" (it wasn't) and antifa showed up and threw missiles.
The speakers, and march, was actually multi ethnic and peaceful but the London media smeared it and no feminist or womens groups, as far as I know, attended it
It was in Manchester

[/quote] Because, feminists are us (not just me, but I presume you too). Thats it. There is no-one else "out there". Yes there are organised groups, reclaim the night for example and yes, if you feel that they have not been doing enough about a specific issue you absolutely should email/tweet/whatever them to ask for their assistance (but not in a "why are you talking about X when I care about Y way"). But ultimately all those groups are just composed of individuals like you and me. It isnt their "job" to care about this shit than it is yours or mine. Arguably it is all of our responsibilities or none of us. So yes, if you started a thread about the current court cases I would HOPE you would get some by-in from people. I think people are pushing back against you on this thread beause they (presumably wrongly) perceive it as whataboutery rather than general conern.
apalledandshocked · 15/03/2021 20:51

I think that peoples (genuine) concerns about the grooming case was hijacked by aspects of the far right/Qanon types in that case by the way. And I do have a LOT of sympathy for the people trying to raise awareness who were unfairly smeared.
I suppose a fair question to ask would be what the aim of a y march would be? The London one was partly vigil for a specific person, and also a protest against male violence/victim blaming/the police. I think like similar protests it did suffer from an innevitable lack of focus. But in the case of the Manchester protests you mentioned - what was the focus? The seemed to be about paedophilia being bad (which, yes but what is the aim). The media did give an impression that it was partly anti-muslim/anti-asian which may be unfair. But if it wasnt that then what was it about?
I am not saying that to be confrontational by the way. Just genuinely trying to understand.

Flaxmeadow · 15/03/2021 21:00

But Flaxmeadow if you feel (rightly) that the issue hasn't been tackled enough by feminists in the north of England and you are a feminist from the north of England, wouldn't it make sense to be an active participant or instigator of such campaigning?

Yes but I'm not asking about feninists in the north, I'm asking feminists from anywhere, even internationally.

Or is "the north" not considered important enough for national attention or to be part of things

I'm genuinely confused what you're asking as you seem to be saying that more is being done elsewhere (which may be true) but you yourself are based in the place you say feminists aren't actively campaigning. But you are one? So why not get campaigning?

I'm not saying more is being done elsewhere, I'm saying NOTHING is being done here or by fellow country women anywhere

I supposed by raising it here I am campaigning

I see post after post on the feminist board, topics about, for example, women being asked at work to use certain pronouns in emails, a valid concern and I'm all onboard with protectong womens sex based rights and so on. But then I look in my local paper and see the most horrific crimes being reported and convicted in my area and I wonder, why is no one talking about this? Yes I should start a topic, but they are often removed, but why is this not being discussed already in feminists circles? These are extremely serious crimes against girls and women and feminists never seem to raise it as an important issue.

apalledandshocked · 15/03/2021 21:05

For example, if a march was to say that individuals from Rotherham Council, the police force and soial services deserved to be criminally prosecuted for their years of utter negligence/complicity I would support that. If it was that the culture within Rotherham council deserves to be completely changed whatever it takes I would support that. If it is that men across the North-West need to seriously evaluate how they view women/children and step up to challenge those views within their communities (I include the police and the Pakistani communties) then I would support that. If it is that we should believe girls I would support that.

poppycat10 · 15/03/2021 21:05

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Lauren15 · 15/03/2021 21:06

@Flaxmeadow

It's quite upsetting and a lot of women here feel very let down. Can anyone, someone please answer me?

Why have womens groups and feminists ignored what's happening to women and girls, victims of serious organised crime, in the north? Why?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I just genuinely don't understand it

@Flaxmeadow me neither. I will never forget Maggie Oliver’s book about grooming. Those girls lives were ruined. The treatment they received by the authorities was almost as damaging as the gangs.
poppycat10 · 15/03/2021 21:07

But then I look in my local paper and see the most horrific crimes being reported and convicted in my area and I wonder, why is no one talking about this

The Times have switched off comments on every article relating to the Sarah Everard case, even in relation to the vigil/protests. I understand they have to be careful about criminal proceedings, but it should be possible to discuss the police's failings since the attack and womens' rights to walk the streets unmolested.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 15/03/2021 21:08

@rosetylersbiggun

Going back to the Facebook screencap purporting to be from a police woman, I have no idea if that's real or where it comes from, but my aunt shared a DM she said she received from an old friend who's a police officer, which is very similar and contains the same falsehoods as the screencap.

I trust my aunt and I believe her when she says she knows this person well and knows that they are genuinely a police officer.

The whole thing is strange.

Yeah. My mother would swear blind she knew somebody personally and it was 100% true when there was a particular shocking tale to tell.

Without fail, she'd either read about it in the Daily Mirror or it was something like giving a lift to somebody and then finding an axe in the glove compartment.

Were she a computer user, she'd tell you she personally knew for a fact that this was from an old friend, rather than part of a thread from a Twitter user who, whilst they may very well be a traffic officer, also ended the thread by posting 'my words seem to be indicating I was at Clapham Common. I was not'.

Flaxmeadow · 15/03/2021 21:08

The media did give an impression that it was partly anti-muslim/anti-asian which may be unfair. But if it wasnt that then what was it about?
I am not saying that to be confrontational by the way. Just genuinely trying to understand.

It was about raising awareness I suppose. A problem I think is that outside the urban north, particularly Greater Manchester and West/South Yorkshire, the scale of this is unknown. As someone said in the thread earlier, they had no idea that court cases were still happening. I think maybe women elsewhere are not aware of the seriousness and massive scale of it. It feels ignored by womens groups/feminists, online.

The thread is about protests by women but maybe I'm going off topic so should shut up now. Or start a topic on the feminist board

Roussette · 15/03/2021 21:14

Flax it is worth talking about. I know only a little bit about what went on, and feel guilty because I should know more. And will try and keep more aware and look into it whenever I can.
Not enough I know
Good luck with your thread.

Dorsetdays · 15/03/2021 21:16

@poppycat10 you talk about the Times turning off comments because they could jeopardise the outcome of a trial, having done exactly that yourself in your post before.

Really?

apalledandshocked · 15/03/2021 21:27

@Flaxmeadow

The media did give an impression that it was partly anti-muslim/anti-asian which may be unfair. But if it wasnt that then what was it about? I am not saying that to be confrontational by the way. Just genuinely trying to understand.

It was about raising awareness I suppose. A problem I think is that outside the urban north, particularly Greater Manchester and West/South Yorkshire, the scale of this is unknown. As someone said in the thread earlier, they had no idea that court cases were still happening. I think maybe women elsewhere are not aware of the seriousness and massive scale of it. It feels ignored by womens groups/feminists, online.

The thread is about protests by women but maybe I'm going off topic so should shut up now. Or start a topic on the feminist board

Yes, I do agree that more awareness needs to be brought. I find it very very disturbing actually that although some of the actual perpetrators were prosecuted (although probably not enough and far too late) none of the people with a duty of care towards the girls were and that is just shocking. I suspect that the police in particular were quite happy that after the initial wave of anger it got directed into being a thing about race. It isnt that people in, eg Pakistani communities shouldnt/arent question attitudes. But that focus meant the police could carry on with pretty much the same culture as before. There shouls have been a hell of a lot more resignations. And Rotherham council's contempt for child victims goes a very very long way back too.

Maybe also a change in the law to make it easier to prosecute people who just dont bother doing their job (or just better use of existing ones)

LakieLady · 15/03/2021 21:32

[quote Flaxmeadow]Well organise some then

I'm asking why feminists and womens groups have not raised issues, or even discussed it so far. Why is that? I've asked but no answer. The answer just seems to be "organise yourself" buy I want to know why womens groups and feminists haven't already? There are womens groups and feminists on here, can anyone answer me please. This is problem that had been going on for years now. The Jay Report was released over 5 years or 6 even?

Also l, as I've said, three times now, a march actually was organised, against crime gangs targeting girls and women, in the north but the (London) media accused the march of being "right wing" or "EDL" (it wasn't) and antifa showed up and threw missiles.
The speakers, and march, was actually multi ethnic and peaceful but the London media smeared it and no feminist or womens groups, as far as I know, attended it
It was in Manchester

[/quote] The far-right have jumped on that particular bandwagon, the media (in London or anywhere else) didn't have to accuse them of it.

Tommy Robinson's contempt conviction (or one of them) was for live streaming or breaching reporting restrictions at a grooming gang trial somewhere in the north. Because of his actions, the perpetrators could have ended up getting off scotfree. I wouldn't participate in any march that might have the likes of him and his sidekicks at it. Lie down with dogs and you end up with fleas.

A women-only march might have got more support from women's groups. There are plenty of women on the far-right (eg, delightful Jayda Fransen) but not in anything like the number of men. I'd certainly consider joining a women-only march if I thought a grooming case was being brushed under the carpet and a march was being held in the south or London, but I'm too old and decrepit to go mixing it with the neo-fascists nowadays.

I very much hope that following the exposure of the scandals in Rotherham, Rochdale etc these crimes are now investigated swiftly and efficiently.